Tired of so called "MMA" in UFC

**Grashnak** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 3:03pm

I would like to see more knees hitting noses, elbows hitting jaws, and
snap kicks.

Problem: Not enough knees to the face in UFC.

Possible Cause #1: UFC guys don't know how to do knees to the face.

Possible Cause #2: Its hard to knee people in the face in a real fight.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

**Kengou** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 3:18pm

The second page of that was rife with Bullshido. I hear your pain, Omar, pretty sad indeed. This reminds me of an article in the latest Black Belt Bullshit magazine (or something like that) that was entitled "Foul-mouthed MMA fighters lack honor". Followed closely by an article about why ground fighting doesn't work.

**chaosexmachina** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 6:29pm

I can't read that kind of thing anymore. My doctor says my blood pressure is already too high.

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 7:43pm

You guys have to realize that at least half the posters on that thread are being sarcastic. SevenStar takes BJJ and Muay Thai, for example.

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 8:12pm

Alright so it's a mixed bag on the responses. I'm basically with Chaos on this. The whole topic gives me a headache and I don't even know how to respond without rampant flaming. I am AMAZED that people like 7* or Rogue can even maintain an itelligent conversation on something like that. I am also thouroughly dissappointed in the same couple of people for coming up with such lame counterarguments.

Lousseau ? Is that the best people can do? It's not like powerfull strikers are the exceptions to the rule anymore. How about some real monsters like Crocop? Or even Silva? [sarchasm]Oh...that's right. Silva doesn't really have any skill in striking he just pumps himself full of steroids and flails.[/sarchasm]

I'd say that Fedor is an incredible striker. He doesn't seem to really know how to kick but his punching is phenomenal . . . even if it isn't at Crocop's level.

And yes, Astrosmurf, Davie Jameson's comments made me want to rip my hair out. It especially bugs me because I know the guy trains and from what I've seen he trains well, even spent some time training MMA.

Why are people not being torn apart for stuff like this:

The avaerage UFC fighter only focuses on ground skills if they know they are going to be facing a grappler. Then they train hard for 2-3 moths. That just don't cut it. It takes years. It is no accident that all the current title holders have strong wrestling backgrounds. They spent years doing it.

All the current title holders? Is that true? Maybe it is. I dunno. But it certainly hasn't been reflected in the fights. The current trend, the one we have been dicsusisng here lately, has been one towards GNP. People have been coming in with MUCH less grappling expertese than they used to. People are learning how to punch from the guard. The grappling domination is 5 years ago if not 10.

Ground work is still VITAL but to say it's all they do and that the striking is "just flailing" is retarded.

Eternal Rage:

I agree that they kind of got on track on the second page. What really gives me the headache over there, honestly, is that you have to even pretend that certain ideas are reasonable and simpy somewhat different opinions as opposed to head shoved up your ass brain damage.

There are some kinds of questions I don't even like to dignify with a polite response.

I'm just spoiled by the lack of moderation over here I guess.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 8:54pm

Originally Posted by Omar

All the current title holders? Is that true? Maybe it is. I dunno. But it certainly hasn't been reflected in the fights. The current trend, the one we have been dicsusisng here lately, has been one towards GNP. People have been coming in with MUCH less grappling expertese than they used to. People are learning how to punch from the guard. The grappling domination is 5 years ago if not 10.

Ground work is still VITAL but to say it's all they do and that the striking is "just flailing" is retarded.

Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell (170 and 205 weightclasses) both have strong wrestling backgrounds. Arlovski comes from a Sambo background. Franklin trained in Karate or something growing up and I believe he picked up mma grappling and striking at around the same time.

Liddell, Arlovski, Franklin are all extremely gifted strikers (Arlovski is a little green in that area, but his natural athleticism seems to pick up the slack). Hughes doesn't normally stand and bang, but his striking isn't exactly terrible, either.

**chaosexmachina** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 9:50pm

Matt Hughes has that really weird lunge punch style. Almost like he's trying to point fight.

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/19/2005 10:40pm

Eggnog,

I threw that in because I was curious but it doesn't really change my point. Regardless of their solid grappling background in an MMA context I don't think
Liddell, Arlovski or Franklin for that matter are really "grapplers" in the way we used to sort fighters out into one of two categories. I can't remember having watched any MatT Hughs fights. I probably have but he didn't make an impression. Nowadays you have to be able to do it all but honestly, what does Liddell use wrestling for other than standing back up again after he's been taken down?

Even without the ref stand ups, I'd say that the days of lay and pray are long gone. When was the last time you saw a fight that would have looked like Royce/Shamrock even without the rule changes? My favorite, maybe one of the most brilliant MMA fights EVA! was Fedor/Minotauro. Two world class grapplers but the fight was still decided mainly on Fedors ability to punch. And think about how many times Fedor stood up like it was nothing. I understand that it is only because he is a Sambo God among men that he even could do stuff like shrugging off Minotauros Kimuras like a shot of cheap whiskey. But he still won by punching Minotauro.

Now getting back to the original argument....punching effectively from MINOTAURO'S GUARD is "just flailing"? puh-lease.

Oh yeah..and we all know what a ripped to the max roid freak Fedor is....*rolls eyes*

**Doctor Shaft** · Posted On: 12/20/2005 12:42am

I have to agree that there seems to be a "bias" in identifying "grapplers" vs. "strikers." Granted, there really shouldn't even be such classifications judging by the way things are evolving in the sport, but I suppose one could say that a person either favors striking people or favors in close grappling.

But I too don't like the Liddell = t3h grapple comparison. Yes, he took years of wrestling, and he got really good at it. Even still, I've yet to see a fight (admitedly, I haven't seen them all, so I may be just ignorant) where Liddell was "grappling" to win, or favoring the grab over the punch and kick. In addition, if he wasn't well-trained or good at striking, then disengaging from grapples would be entirely useless to him. What would be the point of escaping if you're not effective outside of it? Striking still requires dedication and work, doesn't it?

I'll agree that grappling is a necessary thing for any fighters repertoire, but when it comes down to it, are the guys that have blue belts and purple belts in BJJ or whatever groundfighting method really using "BJJ" in the ring, beyond the knowledge of how avoid being trapped in a grappling contest? If so, then I'll also argue that Liddell is now an example of Kempo godliness, since he's got a tattoo of it. :evil:

**BSDaemon** · Posted On: 12/20/2005 1:26am

This guy rules

Originally Posted by Omegapoint

F-ck you and Noam. He's a broke Nietzsche and Nietzsche was a poor mans Kirkegaard. But to hel- with the existentialism. He holds nothing on true geniuses like Baruch de Spinoza or Frank Tipler. In fact I would go so far as to say his I.Q. isn't even in the "bright" range.

BTW YOU geniuses have no memory. I'm no newbie to this forum and I'm no dolt. I am a medical professional who has done everything from CJJ/GJJ to Shorin Ryu. I know the real. I don't need anyone to tell me what the difference between anti-social behavior and sociopathy is. The former is a behavioral trait of many sociopaths. Having sociopathic disorder is the same as antisocial personality trait. I know because my DSM says so, layman dumbfuc-!

Mary do you even have a B.S. in anything remotely related to science? I doubt it so shut your trap with the empirical methodology argument! You couldn't even explain to me what a null hypothesis or two-tailed "t" test is. I also have a valid opinion based on my observational capabilities. I was raised fighting, watching hoods and fighers, befriending them and knowing real Gracies personally as well as others who fought for a living or for the thrill. The Gracies were by no means sociopaths, but many of the suckers doing that sport then and nowadays are, just like my friends who went to prison were. Many of them like to hurt and get hurt for money too. That says a lot about a group of people.

I am not trying to assail you with flowery language. I am giving you my opinion based on my reality. A lot of H.S. wrestlers and athletets are bullies, moreso than the percentage of the student body who are not wrestlers and athletes. Is there a study out there to corraborate this? You cats all went to or are in HS what do you think? As for numbers and studies. Who gives a flyin' f-ck?! Anyone who knows about research, statistics/epidemiology, knows that numbers and studies can always be manipulated to prove a point. So stfu with the attempt to sound academic. As a true academician and medical professional, I can see through your attempt at perpetrating the intellectual. Stop while you're behind, please. Nawmean?

It's alright if you enjoy receivin' and dishin' an ass whuppin'. That's very teutonic of you. Lets all make neurosis into a big money venture. OOPs already been/being done.

As for the rest of you flowery kung fools who now think because you saw the "Ultimate Fighter" for two years in a row and that it automatically makes you a squabbler--- you're sorely mistaken. Most of the supposed chuan fa you're learning just won't give you the proper foundation to ever be able to fight. Get real. Nowadays no one does the traditional; everyone is a MMAs expert! Hahahahaha! You ass pirates couldn't fight off a cold let alone to save your scrawny asses. Anyway if you're really a kung fu guy/gal, then why the f-ck you jockin' MMAs? They ain't jockin' you *****es. Grow some overnight or something. Oh and quit posting on a TMA forum, go to Bittchsheedo or somein'.....

Bandwagoneer, following never leading, fleeced sheep!!!

Either you can and always could fight, you joined a solid fighting art and got better, or you just can't throw. That's how that **** works, kiddies. Always has been like that and always will be, oblivious f-cks.

Whas'sup 7*?! Merry X-mas!!!!

Omegapoint