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  1. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 12:25pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    I thought some of you might like to see an excellent execution of a no gi Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi.
    University of Northern Iowa came up to SDSU for a dual last season. One of their wrestlers scored twice with sasae - or, at least, something so much like it as to be indistinquishable.

    Talked to him afterword, said he learned it from a video from the Lehigh coach.

    I was also talking with some UNI fans in the audience - one commented that the footsweep was a trademark of Macco - heavyweight from Oklahoma U. - national champ, I believe. And had placed nationally in judo (just as an aside, there was a female judoka on the national team with the same name; I'd wondered if they're related but am too scared to ask).

    I've seen a clip of Yoshida vs Silva (I think) - use sasae (to the opposite direction, from an overhook) a couple times.

    We've drilled it quite a bit for MMA comps - it's a good attack from clinch.
  2. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 12:29pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teryan
    You ever hurt a wrestler with a thow? For example in the .gif you posted you see the ukie reach for the ground to break his fall.
    I'm not so sure it was to break the fall as to prevent from turning to the back on the ground - notice the attacking wrestler grabs that arm to get the turn.

    A takedown with back exposure is worth a lot more points than just a simple takedown.
  3. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 1:04pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    I'm not so sure it was to break the fall as to prevent from turning to the back on the ground - notice the attacking wrestler grabs that arm to get the turn.

    A takedown with back exposure is worth a lot more points than just a simple takedown.
    ...not only does it give your opponent back points, it also puts you in the unenviable position of having to fight off your back.

    That's exactly why wrestlers put their arms out, not to break their fall, but to prevent landing on their backs.

    That's the point I was trying to make in another thread. Wrestling is ultimately about putting your opponent on his back while preventing him from putting you on your back. You MUST do whatever possible to stay off of your back. Period. That's what it's all about. That's why wrestlers don't train breakfalls, instead they train to stay off their backs at all costs.

    This is so ingrained into a wrestler that even I, as a lowly high school wrestler, would never sleep on my back. Even today, I'm still a little uncomfortable sleeping on my back.
  4. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 1:23pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Great thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    This is so ingrained into a wrestler that even I, as a lowly high school wrestler, would never sleep on my back. Even today, I'm still a little uncomfortable sleeping on my back.
    This made me laugh. I've always slept on my back. As a high school wrestler, I used to startle myself awake because I was dreaming that I was going to the mat on my back.

    It took me about a 1.5 years to get over this conditioning and start to feel comfortable in the guard position.

    BTW, nice clip lawdog. Looking at it, I realize that I have been taken down with Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi. I must learn this move, luckily one of my favorite sparring partners is a third dan in Judo. Now I'm off to look up the other recommendations on judoinfo.com.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  5. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 1:26pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    ...not only does it give your opponent back points, it also puts you in the unenviable position of having to fight off your back.
    I was thinking of freestyle and greco, where even just exposing your back is worth more points, never mind fighting there. In a way, it's not much different than the serious competitive judoka, who do some pretty astonishing contortions to avoid giving up the back - I've seen guys post out of full ippon-seoi-nage, way beyond my ability.

    This is so ingrained into a wrestler that even I, as a lowly high school wrestler, would never sleep on my back. Even today, I'm still a little uncomfortable sleeping on my back.
    Yeah, it took me a while, when I first started judo, to learn to avoid going belly down (so as to not give up the choke).

    Then, later when I went back and worked out with the high school wrestlers, when I was coaching, I had to relearn NOT fighting from my back.

    I guess I sleep on my back just fine, but then, since I started wrestling relatively late in life (and it was basically winter training for my scrawny cross-country ass), I spent enough time there during my brief competitive career.

    So do you turtle in your sleep?
  6. Honey Badger is offline
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    Sardonic or Sarcastic?

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 2:17pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is that guy pulling the opponent's hair to get head movement? Not that I object to the tactic, I'm just curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin
    I would so do Buttsecks.
  7. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 2:39pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    In a way, it's not much different than the serious competitive judoka, who do some pretty astonishing contortions to avoid giving up the back - I've seen guys post out of full ippon-seoi-nage, way beyond my ability.
    I'm probably a little too competitive, especially for my age and injury status. I still post out of most thows if I can even in a laid back randori. I hate giving it up even when it really doesn't mean anything. The exception of course is when I'm working with lower belts. My focus is now on training more intelligently and staying injury free, so I'm working on correcting that.

    I once saw a guy do a complete flip in mid air and land on his feet as the result of an ippon seionage. It was absolutely amazing. His hands didn't touch the ground or anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    So do you turtle in your sleep?
    LOL, that's hilarious. The answer is no, but I still have this problem sometimes:
    Quote Originally Posted by JNP
    As a high school wrestler, I used to startle myself awake because I was dreaming that I was going to the mat on my back.
    That's why I laughed when I read that, "you might be a judoka" thread when it mentioned bridging and rolling in your sleep. I will still sometimes wake up abruptly and violently throw myself over on my stomache. It's funny because I find myself also tucking my chin and placing my fists beside my jaw as if prtoecting from a choke. I always wake up just after doing it and I'm pretty sure it's in response to a dream of some sort, but I never remember it. It's really weird and freaks out my girlfriends.

    Yeah, I know I have issues!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Miser
    Is that guy pulling the opponent's hair to get head movement? Not that I object to the tactic, I'm just curious.
    No, he's using a simple wrestling "tie up". He's grasping the back of his opponent's neck with his hand. Pulling the back of the neck accounts for the head movement and the kuzushi involved in getting your opponent to take that step into your sasae.
  8. Lucky Seven is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 3:00pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is so ingrained into a wrestler that even I, as a lowly high school wrestler, would never sleep on my back. Even today, I'm still a little uncomfortable sleeping on my back
    Heh thats funny.

    Right beside sasae there is another throw very good to do No Gi, Tai otoshi, its fast, unexpected and if you miss you can recouver quickly http://judoinfo.com/images/animation.../taiotoshi.htm
  9. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 3:08pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Seven
    Heh thats funny.

    Right beside sasae there is another throw very good to do No Gi, Tai otoshi, its fast, unexpected and if you miss you can recouver quickly http://judoinfo.com/images/animation.../taiotoshi.htm
    What kind of clinch or grip are you using to set up the tai otoshi?

    I can think of several ways to effectively set it up no-gi, but I don't recall ever seeing it used. I'd probably prefer to use an underhook, but that's just my preference.

    I think the kuzushi used in the clip I provided could have been turned into an excellent tai otoshi. The thing is, I think the kuzushi involved with tai otoshi is very similar to sasae, and sasae requires less comittment, thus is a bit safer.

    But, it's all about your own technique and comfort level with a particular throw. I've seen beautiful no gi ipppon seoinage, but I'd personally never attempt that throw without a gi.
    Last edited by lawdog; 12/19/2005 3:28pm at .
  10. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2005 3:47pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    What kind of clinch or grip are you using to set up the tai otoshi?

    I can think of several ways to effectively set it up no-gi, but I don't recall ever seeing it used. I'd probably prefer to use an underhook, but that's just my preference.

    I think the kuzushi used in the clip I provided could have been turned into an excellent tai otoshi. The thing is, I think the kuzushi involved with tai otoshi is very similar to sasae, and sasae requires less comittment, thus is a bit safer.
    Or koshi-guruma - similar entry, but less likely to slip the throw without a gi to grip.

    I'm kinda a purist with respect to tai-otoshi - I don't think tai-otoshi should involve much upper body contact - kinda excludes an underhooked version. But that's me - a lot of what some people call tai-otoshi I prefer to call koshi-guruma (or even ashi-guruma - some like the back of the calf to contact uke's shin - to me, that's a guruma).

    But that's more a matter of semantics.

    I just find that, when drilling no-gi version of this throw, the key points that I tend to focus on are more consistent with koshi-guruma than tai-otoshi.

    On the other hand, my gi tai-otoshi mostly sucks, while I have had some success in shiai with koshi-guruma.

    As for sleeping - a real martial artist sleeps on his back, with two cats laying on his stomach. When the ninjas jump in the room, the first cat wakes you up, the second you throw at the ninjas.

    You sports guys and your silly rules.
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