Jet Li gives kung fu films the chop

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 1:53am

Define success?

If you define by the number of people who go to see the movie then that's not accurate.

If you define it as the gross receipts then that's not true.

It's a truism but not a definition. According to your definition, "Drunken Master II" was not a success untill it was dubbed into English even though it made enourmouse profits and was probably viewed by more people than the entire population of the United States before it ever recieved an American release.

Edit:

There are other examples of movies which still have not been released in the US and are incredibly successful. There are Indian movie stars which are enourmous in terms of dollars and in terms of viewership even though you or I have never heard of them. Same thing for many Asian actors like Any Lau. You may have heard of him but most americans haven't. Stephen Chow was a GIANT even before Shaolin Soccer ever hit the western hemisphere.

Your definition is incredibly ethnocentric.

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 2:02am

Specific counterexamples from China just because that is the film market I am familiar with. Movies that are virtually unknown in America but are nonetheless enourmous successes:

- "Wu Jian Dao" aka "Running Out Of Time"
- "Shi Shen" aka "God of Cookery"
- "Dong Cheng Xi Jiu" no English title that I have heard before. IMDB lists it as "The Eagle Shooting Heroes" but I mean the parody, not the original.

The Asian market is big enough for a movie to be succesfull without America.

edit:

I tried to get a source confirming my belief that the Indian market is actually the largest film market in the world but every website I visited claims something different. All that I can tell from my google-fu is that the largest 4 are China, America, India and Japan depending on which website. Japan never ranks first but it is often second. America, India and China seem to take turns as number one depending on the source.

I thought it was India based on what I heard from my brother who is a DVD retailer but I think that may be in terms of sheer volume as opposed to dollars spent or in terms of ticket gross. I'd love to see something like a conclusive statistic on any of those terms, $$, viewers, tickets sold at the theatre, video....all I can seem to find online is just various unsupported claims stated as if they were fact.

**Thaiboxerken** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 1:12pm

The only movies that matter to me are the ones that get to america. That is, unless I'm in Japan, then those count as well.

**kepetri** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 1:18pm

The sucess of a movie is easily defined. If it pulls in more money than it costs to make, it was successful (lets not talk about rates of return or anything, keep it simple). I imagine a lot of foreign movies are quite successful under this definition, while never making a dent in the US market. Bollywood is a good example.

**Neildo** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 6:58pm

I was going to bring up the Asian market and bollywood, but it would have been talking out of my ass and I didin't feel like posting it.

Anyways, Omar did it much more eloquently than I ever could have.

**Omar** · Posted On: 12/21/2005 7:30pm

Originally Posted by kepetri

The sucess of a movie is easily defined. If it pulls in more money than it costs to make, it was successful (lets not talk about rates of return or anything, keep it simple). I imagine a lot of foreign movies are quite successful under this definition, while never making a dent in the US market. Bollywood is a good example.

Yeah except we are talking about successfull for the actor and more specifically, someone said something like "a big hit" or something along those lines. So a 20,000$ straight to video that brings in 80 grand, while technically successfull is not really in the same league. It can't be compared to something like "Batman Returns" or whatever.

The reason that Bollywood and certain Chinese films make the grade without ever coming to the US is that they are still in the 10's of millions category. They can create stars that step out of limo's and are greated by throngs of thousands of fans with screaming nubile women reaching out to them and lots of security has to be brought in etc. etc. etc. Andy Lau can fill a stadium. Jr. High School kids even today, some 15 years after it's release, are still memorizing entire scenes from Stephen Chow's "Cinderella Story - A Chinese Oddysey" in the same way thta most people my age memorized at least some part of "The Life of Brian" when we were that age.

**Dr. Sleepless** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 4:51pm

Originally Posted by Omar

I have to assume that Thaiboxeren was being sarchastic. He's an ignorant prick sometimes but I've never known him to be exceptionally ethnocentric or racist.

Right, but you forget that he's a selfish dick.

Anyway, Unleashed was actually pretty good with all things considered.

I'm glad he's stopping. 30+ years of this and anybody would want to quit. He's doing the smart thing and quitting while he's ahead.

**Shirak** · Posted On: 12/29/2005 1:15pm

wooo you guys have got to go download jet li's once upon a time in china, and fist of legend. they're the BOMB man! his later movies in the hollywood are **** compared to his earlier movies.

**feedback** · Posted On: 12/29/2005 2:45pm

Originally Posted by Omar

Specific counterexamples from China just because that is the film market I am familiar with. Movies that are virtually unknown in America but are nonetheless enourmous successes:

- "Wu Jian Dao" aka "Running Out Of Time"
- "Shi Shen" aka "God of Cookery"
- "Dong Cheng Xi Jiu" no English title that I have heard before. IMDB lists it as "The Eagle Shooting Heroes" but I mean the parody, not the original.

The Asian market is big enough for a movie to be succesfull without America.

edit:

I tried to get a source confirming my belief that the Indian market is actually the largest film market in the world but every website I visited claims something different. All that I can tell from my google-fu is that the largest 4 are China, America, India and Japan depending on which website. Japan never ranks first but it is often second. America, India and China seem to take turns as number one depending on the source.

I thought it was India based on what I heard from my brother who is a DVD retailer but I think that may be in terms of sheer volume as opposed to dollars spent or in terms of ticket gross. I'd love to see something like a conclusive statistic on any of those terms, $$, viewers, tickets sold at the theatre, video....all I can seem to find online is just various unsupported claims stated as if they were fact.

I'm pretty sure Wu Jian Dao was "Internal Affairs", and the US name was changed to "Infernal Affairs" to avoid confusion with another like named US movie.

**slideyfoot** · Posted On: 1/26/2006 8:24am

Jet Li ends martial arts film roles with "Fearless"
www.chinaview.cn, 25th January 2006

It looks as though Jet Li is finishing his martial arts movie-making career with a real bang.

“Fearless,” Li's final kung fu epic, made its global premiere in Beijing on Friday. Although it does not come to local theaters until today, the film has already been recognized as Li’s most powerful feature.

“Fearless” is the story of Fok Yuen-gap (Huo Yuanjia), a national hero in China and martial arts master at the beginning of the 20th century. Fok experienced many dark sides of martial arts in his early years, but he eventually rose to strengthen China's image through martial arts.

The following is an interview with Li by Sina Web site right before the Beijing premiere.

Sina: Can you tell us about your character in “Fearless”?

Li: I play the leading role of Fok Yuen-gap, who is a hero among Chinese people. I don't want people to regard the role as a pure hero, far from ordinary people, but a real man with both good points and weak points. The film shows my philosophy of how to use martial arts. What is martial arts? In Chinese it means to “stop war.”

Sina: Is it true that “Fearless” is your final kung fu movie?

Li: Yes. I have been making kung fu movies for more than 20 years. In this long process, I have been trying to show the audience the contents of Chinese martial arts. It contains not only fighting but also Oriental philosophy, wisdom and tactics.

Now at my age, I think I need to make some changes in my life. I can't always stay in one place.

Sina: Do you find any similarities between yourself and Fok Yuen-gap?

Li: Well, Fok was 42 when he died, and I'm now 42 years old. Like him, I have also experienced many ups and downs in life. So I think I understand his feeling about losing something, about difficulties, and about getting up after you fall. This film is true to some of the historical facts, but contains many fictional details. In a word, I created Fok's story based on my own life experience and psychological progress.

Sina: How do you like the film's theme song composed by Jay Chow?

Li: I think Chow got my message. I told him that I wanted a song to tell people to face life bravely and actively, never getting defeated by anything. The song expresses this idea. Chow is an idol for many young people, and I think he can send this positive message to the public.

Sina: What kind of films are you going to make in the future?

Li: I don't have any specific goal at the moment. In different stages of life in the past, I had different goals. I'm now still in the process of finding a new target. I’ll follow my heart — whatever I want to do, I’ll do it.

Sina: Some French and Thai actors are also making martial arts films. What's your opinion of them?

Li: It's good to have competition from martial arts film making in different countries. Such competition can bring about changes, which are good for the audience. I think film making is similar to economics: There are waves in developments, including peaks and valleys. We need to always make efforts to make martial arts popular in the world.

(Source: Shenzhen Daily)