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  1. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 10:54pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Some information on glucosamine I got from an expert.

    I recently emailed James Gerber, D.C., D.A.C.B.0. concerning glucosamine supplements for martial artists. I found his name in articles concerning glucosamine usage for conditions other than osteoarthritis and emailed him this week.

    Info on the guy:

    http://www.wschiro.edu/academics/faculty/Gerber.html

    Jim has earned two certifications of advanced standing within the chiropractic profession. He was board-certified in Chiropractic Orthopedics and Nutrition. Given his extensive clinical experience and advanced training, it is not surprising that Dr. Gerber has been a frequent lecturer at the postgraduate level for diplomate programs in orthopedics, nutrition and rehabilitation.
    I sent him the following email:

    My name is Steve. I recently came across several of your articles while researching the efficacy of using glucosamine as a supplement for my needs.

    I am a martial artist in my early 20's, and I practice a number of striking and grappling styles (kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, especially). Especially in the case of striking arts, I have concerns for preserving the health of my joints from the percussive impacts and training stresses that I place my body under. This includes running, hitting a heavy bag, absorbing the impact from strikes thrown at me, executing techniques at a high velocity, and having my joints forced into painful positions from submissions in grappling.

    I don't know how familiar you are with the nature of martial arts, so I'm trying to be as general as I can be. But to summarize, I put my joints through rigorous work of varying types.

    I understand that a majority of the studies in glucosamine research are about treatment for osteoarthritic conditions. In my case, I don't suffer from any joint ailment, but have concern for keeping that from occurring. My interests are more towards glucosamine supplementation as a means of preventative medicine.

    I understand that you can't make any kind of medical recommendation over email, so I'm asking you as a researcher in the areas of glucosamine therapy:

    1. Do you feel that supplementing glucosamine at my age and my level of activity would have any benefit whatsoever in terms of preventative health?

    2. If I am taking a glucosamine supplement in pill form, do I have to take the 500mg pills at 3 separate intervals, or can I take them all at once?

    3. Is there a clear advantage of liquid supplements over pills?

    4. I am currently supplementing with this product: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/tke/joint.html "Joint Boost" by TKE. It contains the following:
    Glucosamine Sulfate: 1500mg
    Purified Shark Cartilage: 1200mg
    (Naturally containing chondroitin sulfate)
    MSM (Methyl-sulfonyl-methane): 450mg

    Do you feel this is an appropriate product for someone to take with my goals in mind?

    5. Are there any other information or resources you think I should consult?

    Thank you very much for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to your response.

    Sincerely,

    - Steve
    Dr. Gerber's response:

    Hi Steve,

    There are as yet no studies on preventing joint damage with glucosamine, chondroitin, or MSM, but long-term studies on osteoarthritis suggest the first two can slow down joint deterioration, which is promising for your goals. You can take that supplement all at once if you want to, and no studies have used liquid forms, only powders in tablets, capsules, or packets. Your product looks like a good one, although shark cartilage is a more expensive source of chondroitin - most studies used bovine cartilage.

    J Gerber



    ---

    I thought you guys would like to know the results of my investigation.

    By next week, expect to hear an answer to questions I sent to a researcher on green tea supplements.
  2. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 1:15am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good stuff.
  3. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 9:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cool, thanks Steve. Compile it in an article when you're done.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  4. KnuckleMeister is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 9:32am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I started taking a Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplement about 1 month ago after repeatedly overextending my right elbow. I ended up not being able to straighten my right arm without a bit of pain. I did not stop training, and my elbow has indeed improved a lot, and possibly completely healed.

    Just an anecdote.
  5. relytjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 10:04am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the post, just yesterday purchased 90 days supply of glucosamine pills. Some people I train with also take the 3 pills at once and I am doing it that way also.
  6. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 10:51am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Off to the GNC I go....
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  7. Dr. Fagbot Q. MacGillicuddy, PhD is offline
    Dr. Fagbot Q. MacGillicuddy, PhD's Avatar

    You are in a lot of trouble.

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 10:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Twirling Foot Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    before you go espousing chiropractors as experts, i invite you to take a look at this post and its included links:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...7&postcount=21

    there are very good reasons why accredited medical schools don't certify chiropractors, and why florida state university almost sunk their scientific and medical credibility when they briefly considered it. at its core, chiropractic treatment is pure pseudoscientific crap. pretty much any useful, safe technique employed by chiropractors has been borrowed from massage, osteopathy or accredited medical physical therapy programs. given the nature and mission of bullshido, i would hope active, positive members of this site would educate themselves on this stuff, seriously consider the issues and -- at the very least -- include a caveat when discussing chiropractic treatments or practitioners with anything less than full-on, aggressive criticism.

    now here's a photo of me drunk. and peeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
    FORM AN ACROBATIC BRIDGE ACROSS OMEGA'S GOOCH
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    Bleep bleep blip bloop
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 11:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermey The Elf
    before you go espousing chiropractors as experts, i invite you to take a look at this post and its included links:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...7&postcount=21

    there are very good reasons why accredited medical schools don't certify chiropractors, and why florida state university almost sunk their scientific and medical credibility when they briefly considered it. at its core, chiropractic treatment is pure pseudoscientific crap. pretty much any useful, safe technique employed by chiropractors has been borrowed from massage, osteopathy or accredited medical physical therapy programs. given the nature and mission of bullshido, i would hope active, positive members of this site would educate themselves on this stuff, seriously consider the issues and -- at the very least -- include a caveat when discussing chiropractic treatments or practitioners with anything less than full-on, aggressive criticism.

    now here's a photo of me drunk. and peeing.

    I missed that post before.

    My point was that chiropractors are regulated by the States. That whole "subluxations" and disease issue is a scary idea, which I agree is BS. I don't even think that most chiros know what a subluxation is.

    I haven't been to a chiro in years. But I did get the scoop on glucosaminesulfate from one, and it seems to of helped me.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  9. Dr. Fagbot Q. MacGillicuddy, PhD is offline
    Dr. Fagbot Q. MacGillicuddy, PhD's Avatar

    You are in a lot of trouble.

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 11:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Twirling Foot Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    actually, and i apologize if i misunderstood you, you replied to it, in the original thread:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...8&postcount=23

    not that it matters, really, as the effectiveness of glucosamine isn't exactly tied to the efficacy of chiropractic treatment. i was merely cautioning site members against treating chiropractors as medical or scientific experts. they're not. anyway, the information on that issue is out there for anyone who cares to investigate.

    here's a photo of a painting i did, of ric flair:

    Last edited by Dr. Fagbot Q. MacGillicuddy, PhD; 12/16/2005 11:15am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehogey
    FORM AN ACROBATIC BRIDGE ACROSS OMEGA'S GOOCH
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    Bleep bleep blip bloop
  10. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 11:24am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermey The Elf
    actually, and i apologize if i misunderstood you, you replied to it, in the original thread:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...8&postcount=23

    not that it matters, really, as the effectiveness of glucosamine isn't exactly tied to the efficacy of chiropractic treatment. i was merely cautioning site members against treating chiropractors as medical or scientific experts. they're not. anyway, the information on that issue is out there for anyone who cares to investigate.
    I agree. It seemed strange to me to rely on a chiropractor's advice regarding the efficacy of Glucosamine, or the efficacy of anything, for that matter.

    None of this is exactly earth shattering. It's old news. The benefits of glucosamine were proven probably 5 years ago. I'm sure the studies are mostly all on line. IMO, I'd read the studies myself, rather then rely on the opinion of some chiropractor.

    BTW, I've been taking it myself and giving it to my dog for about 5 years now.
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