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Thread: Zen Do Kai

  1. #31
    Vile's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any relation to this group ?
    Nope, thats a whole other crock of **** waiting to be opened.

    ZDK was founded about the same time the ZDR guy was taking a team to Japan.

    ZDK is often McDojo, can be Bullshido and is sometimes just shoddy but does have some schools that are OK.

    I'm calling complete BULLSHIDO on ZDR based on the listed history, BB by Video course, and idiotic claims by the founder. Not related. ZDR seems to be related to Shorinji-Kenpo in some way (maybe just name) but the Shorinji Kenpo guys I have met are very low key and would really dislike this guys claims especially the 2 year video BB course.
    Sociopaths are people too.

  2. #32

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vile
    Nope, thats a whole other crock of **** waiting to be opened.

    ZDK was founded about the same time the ZDR guy was taking a team to Japan.

    ZDK is often McDojo, can be Bullshido and is sometimes just shoddy but does have some schools that are OK.

    I'm calling complete BULLSHIDO on ZDR based on the listed history, BB by Video course, and idiotic claims by the founder. Not related. ZDR seems to be related to Shorinji-Kenpo in some way (maybe just name) but the Shorinji Kenpo guys I have met are very low key and would really dislike this guys claims especially the 2 year video BB course.

    I guess this is another thread altogether thn !

  3. #33

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's the status of this Zendokai now? Is it a good style to train in?

  4. #34

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Goddamnit this thread is almost 2 years old and you necro'd it to ask a question that was already answered.

    No, it's not a good style to train in. It never was. Unless, of course, you like point sparring and a steady diet of BS. Two years ago this art was mainly ****. Now, chances are it's just ****. Try a real MA, this site is full of suggestions.

  5. #35

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    worth mentioning is that there are several different "zendokai".
    This thread has been about the australian zendokai, a point sparring style that has made some less than successful attempts to go into kickboxing.
    Another zendokai is a japanese style with the same name but no relation otherwise, they are a Daido juku offshot (which itself is a kyokushin offshot, doing a MMA variant of karate), and their competition are very similar to the daido juku ones. They also provide lots of MMA fighters for pancrase, vale tudo and other MMA events in japan.
    Yet another Zendokai organization I know of is straight shotokan.

  6. #36
    Vorpal's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    Hey Sat, great to see you.

    My exposure to Mr. Campos has been in two ways:

    1. I've observed and taken a Gun Defense class that he runs with Mr. Joel Kirsh (a US Marshall if memory serves). Good basic defenses against a close range (touching or nearly touching) weapon. Anyone who wanted could get the chance to attempt a defense against someone using a live gun with simunition rounds. They're approach to getting the heck of of dodge matched mine. Good teaching style as well.

    2. Interfacing with him at the Super Summers martial arts camp as an Assistant Instructor. For the last five years my school has prepared two workshops and a bad Kung Fu theatre demo for them. In that time I've gotten to see him execute technique and watched people from withing the ZKD-USA organization work. They're solid Karate practitioners. As the night before the weekend is typically they're time for belt testing, it's not uncommon to see people going for higher ranks walking around with shiners for the rest of the weekend. That, at least to me, speaks to the level of contact that they are testing under.

    Beyond that, I don't know too much about the actual ZDK approach. But, I definitely think that Mr Campos is a class act.

    - Matt
    Joel Kirsh was my class coordinator in the USMS academy. He's a tough guy and a class act.

  7. #37
    Deadmeat's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here on the Gold Coast, the Zen Do Kai guys label themselves "Freestyle karate kickboxing", and do some limited submission work (standing armlocks, an armbar and a couple of chokes). They aren't considered a major force with respected Muay THai clubs like Boonchu and Strikeforce, or MMA powerhouses like Five Rings and PUMMA on the scene, but they aren't exactly a laughing stock.

    IIRC, Bob Jones claims in his autobiography to be the man who bought kickboxing to Australia, and to have popularised it.

  8. #38
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sigh sorry to necro a thread but theres to much misinformation here...

    lots of internet warriors here not much clue, unfortunately there was a point at which Zen Do Kai was a good style however these days its very hit and miss, some clubs are good, some clubs are better, some instructors have technical deficiencies, lets just say these days it's hard to find a good Dojo outside of Melbourne, and often instructors are promoted to early, some instructors however remain very good.

    Unfortunately there is two styles of Zen Do Kai, what would have been taught traditionally i.e. the stuff you would have learned under the original instructors and the modern stuff which has been bastardised with influence from Kick Boxing and god knows what else which is not worth looking into. Traditionally the kata and sparring work is quite intense, and for many years during its early years ZDK was known to have some of the hardest training Dojo's anywhere in Australia. Lets not forget that Bob Jones was one of the first black belts to be promoted inside Australia, training under Tino Ceberano who is a true Sensai in every sense of the word.

    As somebody who knows some of the original students/instructors from back in the 70's I can say Bob has been quoted off the record as saying that introducing Kick Boxing into ZDK was one of the single worst decisions for the style. Unfortunately it was a decision not really made by Bob but by one of the worst influences on the style in Malcom Anderson, it caused a fracture in the style then and it hasn't really recovered since Malcom took over Queensland. It's Malcom Anderson more so that brought in the majority of the corruption into Zen Do Kai and it's his doings that have brought the style into disrepute to the point where no one within Zen Do Kai recognises Mal or his supposes "rank" (supposed 10th dan last time I bothered to pay any attention) rewarded by himself leapfrogging ahead of not only Bob Jones but also Tino Ceberano.

    If you want a bit of a laugh have a read of his self professed beliefs here.

    http://www.bushikai.com.au/ABK4.htm Bushikai or should that be bullshitkai, it begs the question and it further begs the point as to why anybody in their right mind would go near an ABK school.

    I have quite a level of respect for the original black belts in Zen Do Kai, fortunately my family got out of the style almost 30 years ago before Mal destroyed it.

    As far as 1 year black belts, many are confusing the "jet black" system with traditional grading. There are few students who reach black belt within there 1st year of training, there are even fewer dojo's these days that practice jet black or at least in the way it was supposed to be trained.

    As far as sparring goes, maybe I was just lucky but in my training we practiced full contact sparring (obviously within reason of injury) but then I practiced under what I would consider a more traditional then modern school with much less influence from what I consider to be adulterants of the style i.e. Muay Thai
    Last edited by Orestes1984; 8/02/2009 1:41am at .

  9. #39

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I jumped into one of Malcolm Anderson's classes about 10 years ago. Biggest waste of time. We did non-contact sparring, a little forms work, and Malcolm telling us how dangerous we were. The only reason I remember it was because I got owned trying to use that **** the next day.

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