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  1. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 8:50am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I dont see what you mean here, I just tried the tight fist with a friend, he performed nikkyo and found the tighter my fist the more pain I was in. Sankyo was obviously nullified, but making a fist made his kotegaeshi even more painful. I can buy its hard to get ahold of the wrist in a fight, but so far I've been unable to prove that a fist defeats wrist locks, in fact it seems that the tension helps the wrist lock. The best defense I've found with wrist locks is relaxing and rotating the arm (and being careful not to rotate into a worse position such as an armbar).
    You either need to look at more porn and build up your wrist strength or make a tight fist before they get the lock on, rather than after.


    This is why all wrist locks tipically require you to have kuzushi. If you have their balance they are not walking away from you, and all the wrist locks I know of (except kotegaeshi and possibly yonkyo although I really dont concider it a wrist lock but more of a pressure point) require control of the elbow. if you can't get the arm into the right shape the lock isn't going on. But I've found in standing grappling situations people love to put their arm right into a nikkyo. Its best to hit it and not wait there but use it to transition to something else, another wrist lock or something worse. Just a nice jolt of pain. But you can't' just grab the hand and start trying to twist it. Your going to have to take their balance first or wait for them to put their hand in a stupid place. But I find the same is true for an armbar. I can't just grab a guy and arm bar him, I've got to wait for the right position or create the right position via kuzushi or a takedown/throw.
    Yonkyo is all about control of the elbow. That's what gives you the leaverage to take them down, the pain is just a come-along complience device.

    Seriously look at a good arm bar, see much control someone has, and how the elbow joint is entirely isolated. You can't do that with a standing wristlock, waiting untill someone has trouble in standing up before you apply it is just a bodge. They're much more easily knocked over with a footsweep or something, the fiddly wristlock is entirely unnecessary.
    I also think the aikido kuzushi is inferiour and too dependant on Uke following you like a moron, rather than aggressively breaking Uke's posture and taking his balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  2. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 9:30am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll have to think about that for a while. Maybe i'm just not good enough yet for nice smooth transitions and wrist locks are a little crutch I use for some breathing room to help me move. Time will tell. After the new year i'm uping my judo training to 3 days a week (gearing up to compete). It has already changed a lot of the ways I deal with people. Even though I already had a lot of effective techniques, i'm learning new ways to deal with people that require less strength/luck on my part and more positioning, timing, and leverage. I guess its just all the extra randori i'm getting in.
  3. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, if you're making standing wristlocks work reliably, more power to you and stick with it.

    However if you are planning to compete in judo, you need to learn how to get by without them. They are a foul and can get you disqualified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  4. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 10:33am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yea, I never use them in judo class, just after class when a few of us get together. After the 1st however i'm putting all non judo legal techniques on hold for a little bit while I work exclusivly to try to compete. So for a few months the only wrist locks/ankle locks/cross faces/etc you are going to see from me is when i'm in my aikido class. All rolling in judo and outside of class is going to be strictly judo. I'm just about ready for my first belt test in judo too and I want to get that out of the way as well before I compete. I'll probably get wrecked, but I really can't wait to start rolling with people I dont know. You start to learn everyones tricks when they are the same 5-6 people all the time.
  5. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 10:49am


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BeneathTheMissletoe
    Judo is the Jedi.

    BJJ is the Sith.

    JJJ is the Ewoks.
    My dear sir, if we had some mechanism through which I could express how humorous your post is, I'd cheerfully use it.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  6. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 11:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If anyone is interested, we can talk about kotegaeshi here:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...427#post823427
  7. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 5:07pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I train in JJJ, and here's a generalized breakdown how our class goes:

    50-100 Throws/takedowns. Major throws, trips, shoots, etc.

    15-45 minutes technique practice. Submissions, chokes, escapes, positional work, passes, etc. We generally focus on one or two each class, and work the hell out of them.

    30-60 minutes randori. From standing or knees, depending on focus and level of practitioner. Grappling only. No strikes.

    I'd venture to guess that this training would be fairly similar to what you would find in many BJJ classes, with perhaps a bit more emphasis on takedowns. JJJ systems vary greatly. The one that I'm training in is a Meiji Era system (Yabe Ryu), so has many similarities to old style Judo. So don't always make assumptions about what JJJ is and isn't.
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