Non-asians will never understand Asian martial arts.

**Soju_King** · Posted On: 1/16/2006 9:36pm

Dont forget that Samurai Often engaged in rampant Butt-sex homosexual activity too. that creeped me out when i read about it

**hl1978** · Posted On: 1/16/2006 9:59pm

Originally Posted by Kidspatula

Isshin Ryu sucks too, now you go eat a turd aswell.

Please explain?

Does it suck because you sparried against a newbie who doesn't train for 3 hours a day like you?

Does it suck because said person probably doesnt spar in a school that goes with hard contact or techniques to the legs?

Does it suck because after working out with said person you have deemed yourself an expert on the style?

Does it suck because someone has deemed themselves an "expert" with knowledge with regards to a wide variety ofl styles without training against people of many different styles?

Does it suck because someone takes the word of their instructors as gospel, rather than testing things out for their own value?

Does it suck because someone has convinced themselves that because they are doing a fight in a few months, they are suddenly "bad ass."

Does it suck because you can't bring anything of value to the conversation?

Does it suck because someone feels they need to justify their own self importance?

I've never brought in my own style, nor have I criticized your styles. If you think that style trumps intensity of training, aliveness, or whatever the word of the day is for the same concept, you truly are inexperienced. Heck you admit your relative inexpereince in your own bio.

I'm no expert, and infact lousy at sparring and fighting. I am more than honest qith regards to my limitations and where I lack expereince. However, in the past 12 years, I have had the opportunity to train in a variety of styles, with a variety of people and seen many different ways of approaching the same problem. You can come away with something of value from just about any style, to state otherwise is not only proves your need for self justification but is extremely infantile as well.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 1/16/2006 10:41pm

Originally Posted by hl1978

Please explain?

Does it suck because you sparried against a newbie who doesn't train for 3 hours a day like you?

Does it suck because said person probably doesnt spar in a school that goes with hard contact or techniques to the legs?

Does it suck because after working out with said person you have deemed yourself an expert on the style?

Does it suck because someone has deemed themselves an "expert" with knowledge with regards to a wide variety ofl styles without training against people of many different styles?

Does it suck because someone takes the word of their instructors as gospel, rather than testing things out for their own value?

Does it suck because someone has convinced themselves that because they are doing a fight in a few months, they are suddenly "bad ass."

Does it suck because you can't bring anything of value to the conversation?

Does it suck because someone feels they need to justify their own self importance?

I've never brought in my own style, nor have I criticized your styles. If you think that style trumps intensity of training, aliveness, or whatever the word of the day is for the same concept, you truly are inexperienced. Heck you admit your relative inexpereince in your own bio.

I'm no expert, and infact lousy at sparring and fighting. I am more than honest qith regards to my limitations and where I lack expereince. However, in the past 12 years, I have had the opportunity to train in a variety of styles, with a variety of people and seen many different ways of approaching the same problem. You can come away with something of value from just about any style, to state otherwise is not only proves your need for self justification but is extremely infantile as well.

Aren't you supposed to be eating a turd right about now?

**hl1978** · Posted On: 1/16/2006 11:11pm

Originally Posted by Kidspatula

Aren't you supposed to be eating a turd right about now?

I'm sorry, how does that address my arguments?

See, I spent a large portion of my time of work arguing with attorneys (i work in patent law), by your failure to adequately address ANY of my points, your responses are not only illrelevant to the discussion at hand, rely on toilet humor for a retort, and further supports my own opinion that you lack any knowledge on the topic.

You aren't helping yourself Kidspatula. I sincerely doubt you have any consideration with regards to my personal opinion of youself, however, your behaviour does not provide sufficent evidence why anyone should take your apparently uninformed opinions seriously.

I can only hope you can demonstrate otherwise, and provide reasonable evidence to support your opinion. Otherwise, it doesn't take considerable mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that you are exhibiting troll like behaviour.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 1/16/2006 11:23pm

Originally Posted by hl1978

I'm sorry, how does that address my arguments?

See, I spent a large portion of my time of work arguing with attorneys (i work in patent law), by your failure to adequately address ANY of my points, your responses are not only illrelevant to the discussion at hand, rely on toilet humor for a retort, and further supports my own opinion that you lack any knowledge on the topic.

You aren't helping yourself Kidspatula. I sincerely doubt you have any consideration with regards to my personal opinion of youself, however, your behaviour does not provide sufficent evidence why anyone should take your apparently uninformed opinions seriously.

I can only hope you can demonstrate otherwise, and provide reasonable evidence to support your opinion. Otherwise, it doesn't take considerable mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that you are exhibiting troll like behaviour.

:new_birth turd eating commences now

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 1/17/2006 1:21am

Okay, a couple things...

1.) First of all, many, many people on this board have done WC. And have been burned by it. Some of us have also had the opportunity to listen to all the bullshit that other WC people come on this site and spew at us. (I myself did WC for 2-3 years, and have been listening to WC propaganda from new members on this forum for about 3 years). Needless to say, some of us get frustrated. Hence you get alot of flaming, insulting, and outright lashes and personal attacks. I myself have sort of gotten numb over the years and just gave up. Members like Kidspatula still manage to muster enough energy to suck you all into a flame war.

2.) For the most part, many of the members on this site who don't go postal over WC newbies generally can agree that the problem with WC is not so much in the system itself, but in what practitioners have done with it, mainly squabble over lineage wars and debate over the bil jee rather than hard training. We have acknowledged and even met what we consider by this website's criteria as "good Wing Chun", just do a search on forum member Das Moose. He was a wing chun practitioner who we as a community felt was what WC should aim towards.

3.) The debate about martial arts and personal self improvement has been a long one and is not a subject of the original post. But to just throw in my two cents, personal enlightenment and moral personal improvement is not the main aspect of martial arts. It is simply to learn how to fight in a manner more fluid, advanced, and organized than just brawling. Personal improvement can be taught in just about anything. Sports for example - football, tennis, soccer, etc. What makes martial arts martial arts is the combat aspect of it. Take everything else away, it can still be seen as martial arts. Take away the combat, the fighting, and it is not martial arts. If you see two people doing kicks and punches at each other one day, I will guarantee you the first thing that does NOT come to your mind is "wow those two people are model citizens with great ethics, therefore they must do martial arts."

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 1/17/2006 1:25am

Originally Posted by Jez

How can half these guys consider themselves martial artists?

This does not mean swearing at people, abusing people, or tearing them down about the art they practice. It also does not mean assuming that all white men (or 80% of them, apparently) cannot understand asian martial arts.

The martial artist applies his training to every day life.

He dosent abuse or get over angry, (like half the UFC guys)

I have to say you are being rather hypocritical here. Telling us not to criticize things, especially things that we have not been exposed to and then profiling all UFC guys as abusers and people who lose their tempers? Have you ever met a "UFC guy"?

Unless you actually went to the UFC, met all the competitors, and found that 50% of them lose their tempers on a regular basis, then you are just as much a hypocrite as the racist who made the first post.

**martialfiend** · Posted On: 1/17/2006 4:26am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

I have to say you are being rather hypocritical here. Telling us not to criticize things, especially things that we have not been exposed to and then profiling all UFC guys as abusers and people who lose their tempers? Have you ever met a "UFC guy"?

Unless you actually went to the UFC, met all the competitors, and found that 50% of them lose their tempers on a regular basis, then you are just as much a hypocrite as the racist who made the first post.

I thnk you have to be a mean streak or someone with serious attitude to do the UFC. I mean you can be some 4 eyed geek or nerd and expect to compete. Maybe you can if you've learned something like tai chi using your opponents strength and all.

But not to be racist or anything but just getting back on topic. Certainly cultural appreciation helps especially most of the secrets have not been translated into english.

My advice if you're not asian or chinese is to either have lived in china or at least done a cultural tour if you want to be a hard core maer

**mattr** · Posted On: 1/17/2006 6:15am

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

What kind of cultish nonsense is this?

It's not cultish nonsense and it doesn't only apply to martial arts. When you're a member of any club or organization, you feel a sense of belonging. It's human nature.

I have felt like this on many occasions, most notably when I was younger and studying Shaolin Fists. We felt like a big family. An elite family at that. And not in a 'cult' sense either.

I would imagine that anyone who has devoted years to a particular activity would feel the same.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 1/17/2006 6:27am

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Osiris

Dont forget that Samurai Often engaged in rampant Butt-sex homosexual activity too. that creeped me out when i read about it

LOL it funny how many pple gloss over that detail.

Yes it was very common for some samurai, and other ruling members, to take a boy as carefree as they would take a woman. Of course pple don't to hear that because it ruins their romantacised veiw of the noble warrior they THINK all samurai were.