Non-asians will never understand Asian martial arts.

**Sun Wukong** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 6:50am

damn, I need to STFU sometimes. I start going off to defend a guy with the half cocked notion he's getting a bad deal and then he starts in with his own brand of asswiperie. **** it, from now on, I don't care if the poster is a 9 year old pakistani boy with one arm and half a leg because he was run over by micheal jacksons lawn keeper while running from the king of pop's attempt at making "afternoon delight" inside his "poopie place".

**** it.

**JFS USA** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 6:12pm

Originally Posted by EternalRage

kk yes thats what im getting at... school of hard knocks, what ever. point i was making for all those fuckin noobs was that we dont bash styles per se, we bash the way people train them, but with the influx of retards over the last several years most of bullshido has gone frustrated, annoyed, and to the border of insanity so we end up flaming everyone to hell and it might look like we're judgemental ignorant pricks, but its just that we're pricks.

It becomes somewhat problematic when when "styles" are so inundated with Fantasy Warriors that the whole of the method is buried under mountains of ****.

I honestly can't step up and "defend" CMA - TCMA per se ... I can defend the legitimate practitioners of said systems and that's a small ... growing ever smaller number. Very damned frustrating to look at in retrospect and conclude that I put it on the line so many times over the years and all for naught.

I don't see any improvement in CMA - TCMA as a whole. I think that most of the approaches under these banners have been fatally wounded and can't recover. There are precious few bright spots on the landscapes and as they age out I don't see anyone filling the inevitable void.

I suppose I would be depressed about the entire affair ... but I'm just too fucking mean Spirited for Depression to call me Home ... the bitch whore.

anyway its nice to see that you're filling the void that omega left...

Thanks all that but I would much rather prefer a far younger person pick up the slack. I'm old, I'm beat up pretty bad, not healing at all ... getting worse actually ... and my time is rapidly drawing to a close. I'm keeping it together for this Summer's Maryland Muther of All Mega Throwdowns and then I'm out of it.

**JFS USA** · Posted On: 12/22/2005 6:18pm

Originally Posted by chris_ketchens

damn, I need to STFU sometimes. I start going off to defend a guy with the half cocked notion he's getting a bad deal and then he starts in with his own brand of asswiperie. **** it, from now on, I don't care if the poster is a 9 year old pakistani boy with one arm and half a leg because he was run over by micheal jacksons lawn keeper while running from the king of pop's attempt at making "afternoon delight" inside his "poopie place".

**** it.

Dude, chill ... you are being far too hard on yourself for no good reason. Your Heart was in the right place and it just turned out to be a bad deal ... no harm ... no foul.

You can't just bag out because **** went haywire ... Hell, no one would post more than a couple of times on this forum if that was the prevailing attitude.

**Gelid Light** · Posted On: 12/23/2005 4:07pm

Originally Posted by katsu

I'm partialy british and scotish

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Because as far as I can tell you're illiterate, and that's neither a race nor an ethnicity.

**PRC4Eva** · Posted On: 12/27/2005 10:40pm

Originally Posted by ClA

About Wing Chun:

People hate Wing Chun in the board, as I've read the last two days. My question is, have anyone of you actually travelled to China before??

Before you learn the art, learn the freaking culture!

Of couse Wing Chun works!! Do you know how crowded China is?? Go to any dance club, or just a street market, you'll be bumping shoulders to shoulders with at least 100 people around you. If you go to Hong Kong, and ride in one of their MTR trains, you'll know how freaking crowded China is. There is 100% NO WAY you can use MT kick boxing in a place like that. I am talking about 1/5 of the world's population!!!

Try doing a round house kick in THIS??? BJJ works, but do you think there is room to fall to the ground living in places like this? I've actually seen a women felt asleep standing in the train and NOT fall to the ground, it was THAT crowded.

Now you know why Wing Chun is so popular in Hong Kong?? Different place, different needs. Does it work? Hell yeah.

True story. My uncle is a WC student in Hong Kong. During a trip in China, a guy on the train used a knife to cut open his wife's purse and stole her wallet (they do that a lot), sharp ass knife. My uncle saw it, with at least 100 standing shoulder to shoulder on that train, there was no room for roundhouse kicks or anything like that. Guess what he did?? The Wing Chun chain punch, landed everyone of it on the guy's nose. Dropped his knife too.

Did he get the wallet back? No. Because the thefts worked in groups. He passed the wallet to his partner, the partner ran off the train while other members block the exist door. Well at least he punched the guy a few times.

This is not the only time he has to use the WC chain punch in China.

Now do you see why most Chinese art does not use wide shoulder movements when they punch?? Teachers are always telling students "Don't move your shoulders!!" as if there are things stopping you from using your shoulders? Well in China that would be 10,000 other people standing next to you, THATS what's stopping you.

The MAX you can get is 7 X 7 feet of fighting space. If your art requires you to fall to the ground or move around for a big round house kick..........sorry, the WC guys will kill you. Trust me you do NOT want to sit on the ground in China with 10,000 people walking around you.

And in situtations where you do have room to fight, then sure, other arts apply. But this doesn't make WC any less effective.

About Balance:

The Chinese art focus a lot of "Balance". The word "Kung Fu" means "hard work". A lot of Americans thought Kung Fu means "Fighting".

Well, if you know how POOR China is, you'll understand what balance is all about. Its all about "hard work" man.

Would a UFC fighter cross the river? I don't think so, why would he need to?

Would the farmer's art win the UFC fight? I don't think so, why would he need to when all he wanted was to cross the river to get to work?? Thats kung fu.

But then off couse, balance is important in stand up fighting too. You can't fight if you can't stand.

My Point is:

It is very pointless to criticize someone's art. It only show how little you know about martial arts, and culture in general.

Arts like BJJ originally came from Asia anyways. But a lot of people don't remember this because most UFC fighters are non-asian. Instead of watching UFC, why not do some research or travel to asia maybe you'll open up your minds a little bit about the whole idea of Asian martial arts.

Also, if you know the Chinese culture, you'll know Chinese people are actually very peaceful. They are not aggressive (in general). But they do need face.

A person that wins a fight with martial arts is a strong figther. But a person that over come conflicts with martial arts is a leaders among the strong fighters.

Aggression against aggression leads to conflicts.

A person with a defensive mind will avoid aggression, tuning down the conflict is the REAL winner in a battle. Remember how in a movie, Bruce Lee told a guy to get on a boat and they'll fight? But instead, after the guy got on the boat, he waved him Good Bye??

The same can apply to Bush's war. Did we gain from it? Or did we lose from it? When was the last time China started a war?? Know the culture, and you'll know the martial art behind it.

A lot of you Amercian guys out there with UFC minds will never understand the true meaning behind the culture. A country that have fought over 5000 years of war, they are VERY tired.

Why doesn't Kung Fu enter UFC? Maybe they can't win. And yes, a lot of them won't win. But if these kind of fighting is all you Americans see in martial arts, then your life will be very unhappy and never satisfied, and yes, the Chinese art is not for you.

Just look at the families that are trying to cross the river on a freaking ROPE and tell me they'd have time to invent an art that works in UFC?? They don't!!!

The art they'd invent is an art that'd stop thefts from stealing their rice while their babies cry in hunger. THATS that art these people invented.

You want to know about the importance of Chi?? Try not eating for 3 days and see if you have power to move your big muscles??? Then suck in your air and try to get the very last drop of power coming from your empty stomach, THATS THE ART OF "Chi"!!! And THAT is the art these these people have invented.

Learn the culture. Learn the history. Learn the people. Then you'll master the art.

I don't have time to read through the twenty-or-so pages of this thread, so I'm just going to be pointing out holes in the OP.

That stuff you said before Wing Chun, about the chi? Bueno. Makes sense.

Roundhouse comment: Thats what we have knees for. And elbows. All of which work pretty darn good for small spaces.

The Shoulders: Uh huh. It really takes up a lot of space for you to move your shoulder into a punch.

"Arts like BJJ originally came from Asia anyways."
Erm, right. That's why its called Brazilian jiujitsu.

Amazing how you lump Thai, Chinese, Korean, East Russian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Pacific Islander etc culture all into "Asian" culture.

China hasn't started a war because China can't. We don't have the capability. Oh sure, we can be as badass as we like - with words. But seriously, you think we havent? Where do you think we got places like Tibet and Xinjiang from? Read over your Chinese history, you'll find lots of instances where we've invaded someone else. Then again, I'm drifting off topic.

Back to original subject
"The art they'd invent is an art that'd stop thefts from stealing their rice while their babies cry in hunger. THATS that art these people invented."
In other words, an art that lets them beat the crap out of thieves. How exactly does that not apply to fighting in a ring? Or are you just conveniently ignoring lei tai?

**Cormoran** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 2:09am

don't bother waiting for a reply PRC4Eva, by now i'm sure the OP would have to stop farming rice, head from his little village hut, cross some rope bridges, tumble down a mountain then navigate his way through the crowded streets of hong kong fending off muggers left right and centre and spend two years of income sitting down in a pc baang in order to reply to us.

**PRC4Eva** · Posted On: 12/28/2005 12:46pm

Originally Posted by Cormoran

don't bother waiting for a reply PRC4Eva, by now i'm sure the OP would have to stop farming rice, head from his little village hut, cross some rope bridges, tumble down a mountain then navigate his way through the crowded streets of hong kong fending off muggers left right and centre and spend two years of income sitting down in a pc baang in order to reply to us.

Aw phooey.

And I was expecting a response along the lines of "you call yourself a Chinese how could you betray your Asian culture like that"

**heng fa** · Posted On: 1/01/2006 10:52pm

certainly not all jow is the same...anyone who uses it can tell you that.

**SammyKing** · Posted On: 1/01/2006 11:02pm

Originally Posted by PRC4Eva

"Arts like BJJ originally came from Asia anyways."

Erm, right. That's why its called Brazilian jiujitsu.

You are not THAT stupid right?? I think you forgot to read the jiujitsu part.

Just because someone decided to open a school and call it American Muay Thai Kickboxing, doesn't mean Muay Thai is an American art. How stupid do you have to be. A name does not change the origin.

BJJ is a japanese art. Read this: http://bjj.org/

In 1914 a Japanese Judo and jiu-jitsu master named Mitsuo Maeda (called Count Koma) came to Brazil. In return for help from the Brazilian politician Gastao Gracie, Koma taught jiu-jitsu to Gastao's son Carlos. Carlos in turn taught his brothers (most notably Helio). They went on to further refine the art via constant no-rules competition, developing what is now known as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu

The guy said BJJ originally came from Japan anyways. And he is right, the art did came from Asia. Giving it a new name with your countries title in front does not change it's origin. You can call it American jiu-jitsu all you want, it's from Japan.

Amazing how you lump Thai, Chinese, Korean, East Russian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Pacific Islander etc culture all into "Asian" culture.

If Thai, Chinese, Korea, Vietnamese, Japanese, and Pacific Islander are not "Asian" then I don't know what is. Besides, I didn't see how the guy mention anything about any of these countries??

**SammyKing** · Posted On: 1/01/2006 11:16pm

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29826

I think post #5 from this thread says a lot about people like PRC4Eva.

This man speaks the truth. I'd be very pissed if I were Mitsuo Maeda.

So tell me, "Which arts would that be?"

People like Gracie "invent" something called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but the fact is, everyone knows BJJ came from Japan by a Japanese Judo and jiu-jitsu master called Mitsuo Maeda in 1914. If you have ANY respect for your teacher, you will NOT change the name of something he has taught you and claim it your own invention.