BJJ. The next generation of mc dojos and bullshido

**Devildog** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:00pm

This is exactly why people should study more than one MA. If all you study is BJJ, then, most likely, your stand-up is going to suck, if you are a TKD guy, then, most likely, your ground game is going to suck. The answer is so obvious, not one MA is the best or any better than any other MA for two reasons. 1, no MA is perfect, you have to combine different styles that will give you solid well rounded fighting skills, and 2, you only get out of MA what you put into it.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:04pm

Originally Posted by Devildog

This is exactly why people should study more than one MA. If all you study is BJJ, then, most likely, your stand-up is going to suck, if you are a TKD guy, then, most likely, your ground game is going to suck. The answer is so obvious, not one MA is the best or any better than any other MA for two reasons. 1, no MA is perfect, you have to combine different styles that will give you solid well rounded fighting skills, and 2, you only get out of MA what you put into it.

That is the beauty of cross training and MMA.

You won't be able to out throw a BB judoka, BUT you can out strike him.
You won't be able to out strike a PRO MT fighter, but you can out grapple them on the ground.
You won't be able to out grapple a BJJ BB, but you can get the skills to keep from getting tapped like a keyboard.

And the other point that will keep BJJ from becoming OVERLY McDodofied is the openess to cross train.

**Planktime** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:13pm

A little thread hijack here but, isn't the Clench a form of stand up grappling? You defiantly have some knees and elbows in there but it can quickly move to the ground with the use of throws and take downs? So if this is the case then wouldn’t BJJ be useful in two or more ranges of combat?

Sorry for the noob question but I don’t do BJJ and haven’t grappled for years. That will change soon though in Jan I am restarting Judo.

**EnaeS** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:16pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyFive

This is as much a fallacy as "You can use the same motions from the kata on the ground!" Standing armlocks and chokes are, for example, legal in Judo, but they are also extremely rare, because controlling someone standing is different from controlling someone on the ground.

first i would like to say that i am a white belt with about 1 year of experience in BJJ so take as you will when considering what i say, i don't claim to be an expert but i see no real difference in controling someone with say a RNC choke (ask Omega) or cross choke(i'm gonna say that with the caveat that they have a heavy shirt/jacket on as opposed to a t shirt that easily rips) or any of the chokes that don't need you leveraging off the ground to apply them, i will admit that positional control is harder when you don't have the ground to force them against

you also have the throws that any grappling system may have

did you really mean to compare anything used in a kata to a tech. taht someone has practiced in an alive manner, plus you are comparing two trained fighters in a compitetion to someone USUALLY going against an untrained opponent on the street. From what i've read most people on this board, when talking about a street fight, assume that your opponent will be untrained

Also i think the knowledge a grappler would have of positional control would be a great asset when trying to apply these techniques on the street, especially in an art that trains to transition from one failed to another

**Baator-Steel** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:27pm

Originally Posted by Kempo Army

Baator-Steel do you do brazilian or japanese Jui Jitsu

Japanese but I do suplement it with BJJ and other stuff. I have all the gracie tapes and the Gokor videos so I like to try some of it in class.

**Baator-Steel** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:34pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyFive

This is as much a fallacy as "You can use the same motions from the kata on the ground!" Standing armlocks and chokes are, for example, legal in Judo, but they are also extremely rare, because controlling someone standing is different from controlling someone on the ground...

Alot of chokes work very well standing. They are not as nice as on the ground thats true. I love Judo but I think the reason standing chokes are not used as much is because throws are a bigger concern and showing skill in competition.

**lawdog** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:39pm

Originally Posted by Baator-Steel

Alot of chokes work very well standing. They are not as nice as on the ground thats true. I love Judo but I think the reason standing chokes are not used as much is because throws are a bigger concern and showing skill in competition.

In judo tournaments many chokes are initiated standing, usually as a counter to a failed throw, but are almost always taken to the ground to finish.

The reason the judoka doesn't remain on his feet to finish the choke is that it's much more difficult to control your opponent while standing (even in a choke) than it is on the mat.

**Baator-Steel** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:44pm

Originally Posted by lawdog

In judo tournaments many chokes are initiated standing, usually as a counter to a failed throw, but are almost always taken to the ground to finish.

The reason the judoka doesn't remain on his feet to finish the choke is that it's much more difficult to control your opponent while standing (even in a choke) than it is on the mat.

Makes sense to me. We agree they can be used standing if need be.

**Ted Deadly** · Posted On: 12/14/2005 12:46pm

It’s a common misconception that BJJ doesn’t have striking. As a matter of fact, several months ago we practiced up-kicking from our backs against a large pad.