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  1. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 9:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This clip is not a Koryu JJ but it shows how grappling when weapons involved is not generally a good idea.

    If Koryu arts, especially those created before the shogunate, were developed with the battlefield on mind, newaza curriculum won't be very developed because the nature of the environment in which these arts had to be used.
  2. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 10:16am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    This clip is not a Koryu JJ but it shows how grappling when weapons involved is not generally a good idea.

    If Koryu arts, especially those created before the shogunate, were developed with the battlefield on mind, newaza curriculum won't be very developed because the nature of the environment in which these arts had to be used.

    That is an EXCELLENT clip, we should host this to help answer all those Multiple attacker questions and comments we get here.
  3. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 10:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  4. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 2:22pm


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That one's going onto my drive for certain :)
  5. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 2:58pm


     Style: judo, parenting

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Uyenishi's book the textbook of jiu jitsu as practiced in Japan(1906?) he shows a few armbars and leglocks, as well as a cross choke from guard position. In the text, he makes mention of writing a book on ne-waza, but I don't believe it was ever produced. Uyenishi was one of the original japanese MA's that Barton-Wright brought to England, he returned to Japan before Kano came to England and cross-ranked Yukio Tani and Kozuimi to 2nd Dan. Uyenishi is believed to have been Tenshin-ryu. There is actually a bit more ground work in Uyenishi's student William Garrud the Complete Jiujitsuan(recently reprinted)
  6. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 3:38pm


     Style: nothing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GREAT video. Guy gets close, stab the neck, and don't get to the ground. Beautiful.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 7:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had a couple of post on the role of newaza in Koryu arts do a search for them. If you can't find them I will retype the info. (don't really want to though.)
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Lane is offline
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    Ex-ninja

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 10:26pm


     Style: Muso Shinden Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    This clip is not a Koryu JJ but it shows how grappling when weapons involved is not generally a good idea.

    If Koryu arts, especially those created before the shogunate, were developed with the battlefield on mind, newaza curriculum won't be very developed because the nature of the environment in which these arts had to be used.
    Nice kali work in that clip.

    I also like how you notice that no one emerges "uncut" from the fights. That's about as realistic a portrayal as you're going to get.
    --
    L.
  9. Beatdown Richie is offline
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    game dog

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 5:53am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hope this won't derail the thread... but the first part of that clip was great, the attackers were going for it, but as soon as the clip was supposed to show "our stuff that actually works", the attacker went into retarded zombie uke mode. Like a knife casually flicked at your leather jacket from two yards distance is actually going to do anything (except provide you with a knife!). I suppose the bottom line is clear enough - multiple attackers with weapons against one unarmed -> you're fucked; multiple attackers against one armed -> everyone's fucked. Anyhow, leaving multiple attackers aside -- against one dude with a knife, is it really smarter to get into a striking vs. slashing contest than to get in close and try your best to control the weapon hand? (Even more so with a blunt weapon, which is pretty useless without space to swing it)
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  10. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 6:16am


     Style: nothing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knecht Ruprecht
    Anyhow, leaving multiple attackers aside -- against one dude with a knife, is it really smarter to get into a striking vs. slashing contest than to get in close and try your best to control the weapon hand? (Even more so with a blunt weapon, which is pretty useless without space to swing it)
    Well, that's the koryu newaza concept really- but it's very hard to do. If you get close to someone who is using a sharp weapon, without complete control of that hand, he can and will **** you up something awful. At that kind of range, you don't get slashed, you get stabbed repeatedly, deeply, usually in the lower midsection. You really have to focus almost entirely upon the attacking hand, while maintaining enough distance from the opponent's body so that he couldn't attack you with anything else (samurai were notorious for hiding lots of small weapons on their person). That IS koryu newaza- essencially, you are always assuming the other person can get at you with a weapon, and you sacrifice body control for security. Also, that control of the weapon hand will likely be some kind of wrist grab- something that, suprisingly enough, koryu jujitsu trains for.

    (disclaimer- I am poorly educated, not an expert, and am not speaking for ANY MA- I'm just making assumptions. Please take them as just that.)

    Blunt weapons at close range can be jammed into you- not a fun experiance. in dog brothers videos, you can see the butts of sticks essencially pried into people's necks in guard positions. Also, with a short blunt weapon, you can get someone with a "digging" motion under the floating rib if there isn't enough room to swing- try it out with a capped pen or the like.
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