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  1. Spunky is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 3:45am


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought so but wasn't sure :smile:

    That's a lot of fun to do. And people make fun of the cheesy Buj footwear, but its a nice spot to tuck a training knife :icon_mrgr
  2. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 4:02am


     Style: nothing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now I wanna be a ninja! They get the +1 Boots of Knife Hiding.... (I make stupid joke, and yet I'm certain a 'ninjitsu' school somewhere teaches doing that as a secret ninj4 technique)

    I know you can tuck em into the front and back of a hakama, if you're keen on wearing a split skirt and being the prettiest girl at the ball (mine'll be here soon!)
  3. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 4:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if they used Ground and Stab intead of Ground and Pound?

    Heh, that's interesting since I usually correlate a strong emphasis on transition/movement with BBT as opposed to static positions. I'm not entirely sure what locks and holds you find lacking, since the locks themselves are there regardless of orientation of the fighters, and (though I might catch a lot of flack for this) if you really understand armlocks you should be able to figure how to apply them to the legs, with various parts of your own body, whether you and/or the opponent are standing,, grounded, falling, flying, etc. (not that I'm an expert in any way)
    We do emphasise transition and movement but it also must be rememberd that it is a stand-up style. If you don't train for the ground you won't be very good at the specific way that you move, shift your position and change your base. Just like boxing won't teach you to fight on the ground. What you are saying is true regarding the flexible use of the body to apply locks, for example we apply "oni kudaki" with our arms and legs in BJJ/wrestling, and the armbar is used on the legs for a kneebar as well. Without specific training in it however, the skills to apply them will not be availible, no matter how well you grasp the principle and your performance in standup.

    As this article shows there are major differences in the application of the same techniques in classical and modern sports grappling: http://www.grapplearts.com/Submissio...s-ju-jutsu.htm

    The reasons come down to;

    Weapons: The use of ones own weapons, the prevention of the opponents use of the weapon and the possibility of concealed weapons.

    The enviorment: It was important to be able to disengage quickly if suddenly faced with additional attackers. Perhaps the traditional techs sacrificed some of the security of the hold for mobility (as in standing back up and running, fighting) and in sub-grappling the opposite.

    So perhaps that's it. You don't see it much in koryu arts because the situation was different. Fusen ryu may have been an art developed during times of relative peace. A piece of thee puzzle is where did the Fusen Ryu get thier newaza, and what conditions was it intended for?
    Last edited by Virus; 12/14/2005 4:34am at .
  4. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 4:37am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By the way, if you are planning on live drilling with a fully resisting partner while using a knife I would reccomend getting a rubber training knife as you can still get stabbed with wooden tanto.
  5. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 4:47am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fusen Ryu was developed in the early 1800's- actually at the time of the dissolution of the samurai class, so yeah, focus is definitely shifted toward unarmed combat. Takeda Motsuge, the founder of the style, was pretty much across the board in many, many different jujitsu styles (pretty much a prerequisite for making a legitimate style back then), so I would have to assume that most of his technique is probably a derivation thereof with an unarmed standpoint, which means you get closer, etc.

    Also, it seems that there are extant schools of Fusen Ryu that are not entirely focused upon newaza in Japan. Hmm...

    (Info blatantly stolen from Prof. Google)
  6. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 4:51am


     Style: nothing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    By the way, if you are planning on live drilling with a fully resisting partner while using a knife I would reccomend getting a rubber training knife as you can still get stabbed with wooden tanto.

    Dude, I get stabbed with a wooden kaiken whenever we use 'em. It hurts, but you live. Never had any serious injuries.
  7. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:02am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guess I'm just a bigger ***** than you.

    Was just thinking about pancrase. Maybe the greeks battlefield wrestling was similar to the things we have been discussing in terms of weapons, armour and the escape option and not like pancrase which was against a single opponent who you could be sure was not carrying weaponry.

    Here's short clip of a Fusen ryu demo (don't expect any amazing guard passes that were lost in time) http://www.bushinjuku.com/media/video/fusen_enbu.MPG

    this is the pafe it came from with some info about Fusen ryu: http://www.bushinjuku.com/arts/bushi...usen/fusen.htm
    Last edited by Virus; 12/14/2005 5:15am at .
  8. UrbanArmory is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:28am


     Style: nothing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Huh. Well, that basically looked like a jujitsu demonstration- but I love that crazy demonstrative I'm-gonna-chop-at-your-head stance. Points for coolness.

    And now that I thought about it- if you're going to have untrained people frantically stabbing at each other from weird positions, you're totally right- rubber.
  9. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 7:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban
    Also, it seems that there are extant schools of Fusen Ryu that are not entirely focused upon newaza in Japan. Hmm...
    I can just picture the ju-jitsu boards now: "OMG that's not t3h r3al Fus3n ryu!"
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 8:10am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From the Takenouchi ryu:
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