your karate is MMA you punk! One of our fighters fought in a Shidokan thingy pretty recently, sounded neat.
Originally Posted by WhiteShark
First of all,
Standing grappling has always been a part of Traditional Karate, sweeps go without saying.
Now, the bunkai of Okinawana Goju ( for example) shows lots of standing grappling, throws and sweeps, even neck breaks and GnP, like the photo above.
But NO system of Karate has ground grappling.
No RNC, No armbars, Nothing other than GNP while on the floor.
I have not studied many different MA styles but I would be amazed if all styles of martial arts did not have some kind of takedowns or grappling. 90% of all fights end up on the ground and for anyone to study or teach a MA without ground work is ludicris, IMO.
We're starting to repeat ourselves now.
Originally Posted by Ronin
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Wow...a rant that I actually have to grudgingly agree with.
I THINK I may have a little bit of insight into this, though, from stories I shared with one of my old instructors when I was in the Genbukan last year. He basically spent a **** load of time over in Japan, where he first trained in Kyokushin and Judo before he met Tanemura sensei and "converted" to Taijutsu.
Basically, he explained that when he trained over there, a karate school was supposed to be STRICTLY A KARATE SCHOOL. The students knew the difference between "standing striking" and "holding fighting", and went specifically to certain schools to learn certain systems. He explained that the idea of doing "Judo/Grappling" in a Kyokushin school was considered a bit disrespectful...since if you wanted to do Judo, then you'd better get your ass out of the Karate school and into a Judo school!
Insert into this the fact that Kyokushin and Judo tournaments were (and still are) very prevalent and popular, and you've got your reasoning for technique inclusiveness.
He then also explained that a HUGE chunk of advanced Karate-ka regularly cross-trained in an Aikido or Judo school as well ("You could tell by the calluses on their knuckles" were his exact words).
I think the problem stems from us Americans, in that we instinctively (as salesmen) want to be able to offer everything to customers. This includes students in martial arts school. If a need is expressed and found wanting in your practice...then a smart business man quickly makes a case to show that his product does NOT lack the need in question.
UFC created a "need" for grappling...many existing martial arts schools were simply doing what any businessman would.
I do admit that I find it VERY refreshing when I visit a local "Traditional" school of TKD, TSD, Shito-Ryu, Shorin Ryu, etc... and ask them "Do you guys teach grappling?", to which they respond, "Nope. I can refer you to a good BJJ or Judo club if you'd like".
Honesty, unfortunately, is not a requirement to success in business.
I always had Ronin down as one of those pesky revisionalist traditionalists!
You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM
just die already.
Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM
Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
What annoys me is people claiming you can apply stand up karate grappling techniques (of which there are many, but their effectiveness without constant training is debatable) to the ground. Garbage. I've said this a million times, 9 out of ten blackbelts in Karate were blackbelts in Judo/JuJitsu in Funakoshi/Soken/Oyama's day. Karate has holes in it, the size of those holes depend on how hard you train and in the end can only be filled in by another art. Karateka who come along with "Oh! Oh! my style has secret groundfighting techniques, and sometimes we even try them on each other! Can I be considered MMA now?" make me sick, because of them we all get tarred with the same brush.
and feathered with the same pillow!
Originally Posted by kickcatcher
That asswipe !
There is also "standing"(or at least on the feet) grappling that pins to the floor.
Originally Posted by Ronin
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