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  1. Kaitain is offline

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    Aug 2004
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    Brighton, UK
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 9:40am


     Style: Taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe their throwing isn't all that (I havent met/trained with any of them - I just mentioned it since your sifu trains there)- tbh when someone comes in at 25 stone it's going to require better technique to throw them well. Maybe the intent is different as well - often in BJJ the throws are trained as ways to dominant floor position rather than to **** someone up. I've got a student who's got 10 years of JJJ and he throws me through the floor. It hurts _every_ time. Maybe speak to one of the higher grades at Gracie Barra and ask them to throw you with stopping you in mind? Worth a shot.

    For what it's worth Im 6'4'' and 18 stone and the guy that messed me up was5'10'' and 13 stone - so in my experience it's something that can happen irrespective of size difference. One of the worst injuries Ive had.
  2. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Nov 2005
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 9:53am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    You are new here, very new obviously, and kid in your early 20's, so I will cut you some slack.
    Your posts show lack of experience.
    You "nutride" WC, yet make sill comments on how WC in "Set only" and has no "knees".
    You adocate cross training, yet mention how throws are a waste of time, and that boxing, and WC for that matter, doesn't work for smaller people.

    I could go on, but I don't have to.
    I did not say that wing chun works for bigger people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If you read the post carefully I was stating that smaller guys have trouble hitting bigger guys. Wing chun helps the smaller guy out!!

    WC does not use knees!!! We have incorperated Thai Boxing knees into our training at Kamon because we appreciate their value, and we fight differently to most wing chun schools.

    I do advocate cross training. My apologies to people I have insulted with regards to the throws, but I am putting a point across that in 18 years of training I have never seen or pulled off a throw that worked effectively. It is much better to use other things.
  3. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 9:56am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitain
    Maybe their throwing isn't all that (I havent met/trained with any of them - I just mentioned it since your sifu trains there)- tbh when someone comes in at 25 stone it's going to require better technique to throw them well. Maybe the intent is different as well - often in BJJ the throws are trained as ways to dominant floor position rather than to **** someone up. I've got a student who's got 10 years of JJJ and he throws me through the floor. It hurts _every_ time. Maybe speak to one of the higher grades at Gracie Barra and ask them to throw you with stopping you in mind? Worth a shot.

    For what it's worth Im 6'4'' and 18 stone and the guy that messed me up was5'10'' and 13 stone - so in my experience it's something that can happen irrespective of size difference. One of the worst injuries Ive had.
    Look I'm not trying to mock anyone's art, I just feel that throwing takes a lot of energy to do, when you could just hit the person! There are times when I would use a throw (if I was grabbed from behind) as I would rather go to the floor than be choked out.

    I think most techniques can work irrespective of size if trained well enough.
  4. Southpaw is offline
    Southpaw's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Dec 2002
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    Raleigh, NC
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    2,907

    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 9:59am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    None of our Croydon/Beckenham Kamon guys train with outsiders, I know because I am very very good friends with all of them.
    Just pointing out that this isn't a good thing...
  5. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:01am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    Just pointing out that this isn't a good thing...
    Did I say it was??!! Luckily we do have 45 schools in London full of different martial artists. Therefore, we are never short of variety. I on the other hand prefer to train outside of class in parks with guys who come from different walks of life
  6. Southpaw is offline
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    Dec 2002
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    Raleigh, NC
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    2,907

    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:02am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    WC does not use knees!!!
    Kamon Guy...it is comments like these that make WC people look like fools. Just because your WC doesn't use knees...doesn't mean that if you use knees...it isn't WC.

    It is the generalizations about WC that make us targets for so many other people.
  7. Ronin is online now

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2003
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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    I did not say that wing chun works for bigger people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    If you read the post carefully I was stating that smaller guys have trouble hitting bigger guys. Wing chun helps the smaller guy out!!

    WC does not use knees!!! We have incorperated Thai Boxing knees into our training at Kamon because we appreciate their value, and we fight differently to most wing chun schools.

    I do advocate cross training. My apologies to people I have insulted with regards to the throws, but I am putting a point across that in 18 years of training I have never seen or pulled off a throw that worked effectively. It is much better to use other things.

    You were born in 81, that makes you 24.
    Since you you started training at age 6, your tecnhique MUST be excpetional.
    Yet, throws don't work for you OR against you, even when faced with an European Champion.
    I assume that Olympic competion is your goal, for obvioulsy you will clean up there and bring home the gold.

    I have no idea where you got that WC doesn't use knee strikes, please explain that to us.

    Wing Chun punches will enbale a smaller person to hit "better"than boxing ?
    Please elaborate on this.
  8. Ronin is online now

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    Look I'm not trying to mock anyone's art, I just feel that throwing takes a lot of energy to do, when you could just hit the person! There are times when I would use a throw (if I was grabbed from behind) as I would rather go to the floor than be choked out.

    I think most techniques can work irrespective of size if trained well enough.

    To parapharse Gene Lebell, many people can take shots but no one can take getting dumped on their head.
  9. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

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    Jul 2004
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    On the wrong side of the pond for gong sau
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    2,084

    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:04am

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    It doesn't concern me that an 18 stone guy might land on me because I'm around 25 stone anyway.
    You're talking about 43 stones(260 kilos/574 pounds) worth of people hitting the ground with you on the bottom.

    I don't know about you, but I'd worry about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  10. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Nov 2005
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    Posted On:
    12/09/2005 10:07am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    Kamon Guy...it is comments like these that make WC people look like fools. Just because your WC doesn't use knees...doesn't mean that if you use knees...it isn't WC.

    It is the generalizations about WC that make us targets for so many other people.

    !!!! I can't believe people are arguing this point. There are no knees in wing chun!!

    It's like me arguing that there are roundhouse kicks in BJJ.
    'No there are really. What? You're art doesn't teach it? Well it doesn't mean that there aren't roundhouse kicks in BJJ....'
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