222391 Bullies, 4457 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 12
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. KnuckleMeister is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    221

    Posted On:
    12/05/2005 11:40am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Protein or Glutamine/Creatine mix?

    My search for supplements for this phase of my training has brought me to the following product:

    Maximuscle Cyclone

    The Ultimate 'all in one' Power Product. The ultimate all in one formula for packing on muscle, strength and power - . Cyclone has become the number one selling formula for increasing lean muscle, strength and power. Its industry leading formula includes the most exciting and powerful anabolic nutrients to ever come onto the market - more importantly in dosages that work. Each daily serving provides an amazing 10gms of Maxpure Creatine Monohydrate and 10gm of extra Glutamine. The latter being highly anabolic, promoting muscle growth, energy and nitrogen retention, whilst optimising growth hormone.
    My main goal is recovery after my Thai Boxing workouts, and bulking on the side.

    I already eat around 5 meals a day; I think my diet is OK generally. Except for 3 x2hr sessions a week in MT I run 5k once a week, and do an early morning circuit 3 times/week.

    Note the absence of weights in the above.

    My plan is to take something like 2 shakes a day, post-workout.

    Based on this, am I "go" for this product or should I try protein first?

    thx
  2. dakotajudo is offline
    dakotajudo's Avatar

    Judo Instructor

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    633

    Posted On:
    12/05/2005 1:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleMeister
    My main goal is recovery after my Thai Boxing workouts, and bulking on the side.

    I already eat around 5 meals a day; I think my diet is OK generally. Except for 3 x2hr sessions a week in MT I run 5k once a week, and do an early morning circuit 3 times/week.

    Note the absence of weights in the above.

    My plan is to take something like 2 shakes a day, post-workout.

    Based on this, am I "go" for this product or should I try protein first?

    thx
    Based on your workout, creatine will do you little good. Creatine is only useful in activities of high work over a short period of time - 10 or so seconds. Specifically, weight lifting.

    You're not doing that.

    Your meal schedule sounds about right - the only thing I would add is that you try to get one of your meals within 30 minutes of a workout - that's more important for recovery (assuming your meal is balanced with respect to carbohydrates and proteins. Myself, I like a fruit shake - milk, fruit, yogurt, a raw egg and blended; if the fruit is banana I add brown sugar and cinnamen).

    With five meals a day, you probably don't need protein supplements, unless the meals are really high carb.
  3. bdweezil6998 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    60

    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 7:45pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're interested in creatine/glutamine, I'd say you're better off going with a name brand company. Someone like EAS, Muscle-Tech, Met-Rx, etc. Most supplement companies aren't policed, and a lot of the smaller companies are caught not meeting lable claims...the stuff in the bottle isn't what it says on the lable. At least most of the bigger name companies have some sort of quality control.
  4. Equipoise is offline
    Equipoise's Avatar

    Certified Fitness Trainer

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    In the nightmares of bodybuilders.
    Posts
    3,433

    Posted On:
    12/15/2005 10:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're interested in creatine/glutamine, I'd say you're better off going with a name brand company. Someone like EAS, Muscle-Tech, Met-Rx, etc. Most supplement companies aren't policed, and a lot of the smaller companies are caught not meeting lable claims...the stuff in the bottle isn't what it says on the lable. At least most of the bigger name companies have some sort of quality control.
    STFU. Are you working for GNC or what? Those companies that you've listed are mostly rip offs as they're do expensive and don't provide anything better than most other companies do.

    As for the topic at hand. You can't compare protein to Creatine or Glutamine. Protein is something needed for tissue regeneration, etc. Glutamine can help with IGF-1 levels, etc, but it's most useful purpose is tissue regeneration and the immune system as Glutamine is leeched from the lower intestine during intense activity. Creatine is a cell volumizer that will allow the muscles to better utilize and hold more water for the activities being done. As for it being more useful over a short period of time versus a long period, this is moot. It helps with any activity. The duration of an activity and the ability to handle that activity is mostly going to be a facet of the metabolic pathways associated with the exercise and even so Creatine will help regardless of the pathway used.

    Get an estered creatine btw. Cheaper, more potent and doesn't cause any bloating.

    My suggestion, use all three. Protein and Glutamine should be combined in whatever PWN you're using.
  5. bdweezil6998 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    60

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 1:58am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    STFU. Are you working for GNC or what? Those companies that you've listed are mostly rip offs as they're do expensive and don't provide anything better than most other companies do.

    As for the topic at hand. You can't compare protein to Creatine or Glutamine. Protein is something needed for tissue regeneration, etc. Glutamine can help with IGF-1 levels, etc, but it's most useful purpose is tissue regeneration and the immune system as Glutamine is leeched from the lower intestine during intense activity. Creatine is a cell volumizer that will allow the muscles to better utilize and hold more water for the activities being done. As for it being more useful over a short period of time versus a long period, this is moot. It helps with any activity. The duration of an activity and the ability to handle that activity is mostly going to be a facet of the metabolic pathways associated with the exercise and even so Creatine will help regardless of the pathway used.

    Get an estered creatine btw. Cheaper, more potent and doesn't cause any bloating.

    My suggestion, use all three. Protein and Glutamine should be combined in whatever PWN you're using.
    actually I stick with name brands...here's an example why. I know of one of the "lesser known companies" and here's how they market their product. They buy their stuff generic from a distributor. The guy and his wife repackage it in their bathroom and stick their own lable on showing a different mix of supplements. They sell the stuff off the internet and charge almost twice as much money.

    I listed some of the better known name brands, but there's more out there, that aren't sold at GNC. Personally, I like Muscle-Link's Creasol for my creatine...that's what I use myself, and I get it through dpsnutrition.com. I also like Beverly Nutrition products as well...neither of which will ever see a GNC shelf. I think the only place to get their stuff is direct through them.

    Granted, there are some smaller companies that are legit, but unless you're willing to spend the time doing the homework and research on them, the big name brands will at least meet lable claims. There is no federal agency patrolling supplement companies making sure products are meeting lable claims, so if you go with a smaller company, just be aware this might be going on.

    another one that comes to mind is that company that sold the liquid serum creatine in the little dropper bottle. They were tested and it was shown that their product contained less than 5% of the creatine that was reported on the lable. The majority of the supplement in the bottle was creatanine...a waste byproduct of creatine.
  6. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
    Posts
    1,622

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 2:09am


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** muscletech.





    Needed to be said.
  7. dakotajudo is offline
    dakotajudo's Avatar

    Judo Instructor

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    633

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 12:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    As for the topic at hand. You can't compare protein to Creatine or Glutamine. Protein is something needed for tissue regeneration, etc. Glutamine can help with IGF-1 levels, etc, but it's most useful purpose is tissue regeneration and the immune system as Glutamine is leeched from the lower intestine during intense activity.
    Partly right - creatine is not protein. But glutamine is an amino acid that can be used to synthesize protein.

    However, glutamine metabolism is more complex than just as a protein monomer. It is involved in nitrogen metabolism in many tissues - including the immune system, so you got that part right. Some cells of the immune system also use glutamine as a fuel source. Whether glutamine supplementation is of added benefit is less clear; glutamine is the end product of ammonia recovery, so your body is continually synthesizing glutamine from oxyglutarate.

    Not sure where you get the "leeched from the lower intestine" part. Sometimes enteral glutamine supplementation is used, but this is to ensure that a more significant portion goes to the splachnic circulation (liver and spleen) than to general circulation.

    During intense activity, glutamine may be depleted, but that's because glutamine is an important source for gluconeogenesis in the liver; a process that is important in maintaining blood glucose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    Creatine is a cell volumizer that will allow the muscles to better utilize and hold more water for the activities being done. As for it being more useful over a short period of time versus a long period, this is moot. It helps with any activity. The duration of an activity and the ability to handle that activity is mostly going to be a facet of the metabolic pathways associated with the exercise and even so Creatine will help regardless of the pathway used.
    Not really.

    We should review the biochemistry.

    Muscle contraction hydrolyzes ATP to ADP and organic phosphate. To continue contraction, ATP must be regenerated.

    During the early part of muscle contraction, ATP is regenerated using phosphate transferred from phosphocreatine stored in the muscles. As that reserve becomes depleted, continued muscle activity relies more upon glycolytic (anaerobic) metabolism. These reactions are relatively, thus support a lower level of muscle effort. At longer durations, the muscles rely more on the aerobic systems.

    Normal muscle stores of phosphocreatine are good for about 10 seconds. However, supplemental creatine increases those reserves, adding a second or two to period over which the phosphagen system is functional.

    For resistance training, that means adding an additional rep when lifting heavy resistance in the 6-8 range - the type of exercise most suited for increasing muscle mass.

    Lifting fewer reps does not overload the phosphagen system, so creatine supplementation is of little added benefit, while higher reps push anaerobic, glycolytic processes.
  8. bdweezil6998 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Buffalo, NY
    Posts
    60

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 1:37pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    **** muscletech.





    Needed to be said.
    Amen...I kinda put it out there since it's a brand a lot of people are familiar with...and the product itself might be good, but I agree, I just don't like them. Their US distribution center is located here in Buffalo, and one of my friends used to work there. They really screwed him over...bad. Because of that, I'll never buy any of their stuff anymore.
  9. SFGOON is offline
    SFGOON's Avatar

    and humble, too!

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,208

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 3:17pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The supplement industry is one of the most corrupt entities in the world, IMHO.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vita...ybuilding.html

    I have gotten amazing result from this lately, and the total cost for the supplements is VERY cheap.
  10. Equipoise is offline
    Equipoise's Avatar

    Certified Fitness Trainer

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    In the nightmares of bodybuilders.
    Posts
    3,433

    Posted On:
    12/16/2005 5:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    Partly right - creatine is not protein. But glutamine is an amino acid that can be used to synthesize protein.

    However, glutamine metabolism is more complex than just as a protein monomer. It is involved in nitrogen metabolism in many tissues - including the immune system, so you got that part right. Some cells of the immune system also use glutamine as a fuel source. Whether glutamine supplementation is of added benefit is less clear; glutamine is the end product of ammonia recovery, so your body is continually synthesizing glutamine from oxyglutarate.

    Not sure where you get the "leeched from the lower intestine" part. Sometimes enteral glutamine supplementation is used, but this is to ensure that a more significant portion goes to the splachnic circulation (liver and spleen) than to general circulation.

    During intense activity, glutamine may be depleted, but that's because glutamine is an important source for gluconeogenesis in the liver; a process that is important in maintaining blood glucose.



    Not really.

    We should review the biochemistry.

    Muscle contraction hydrolyzes ATP to ADP and organic phosphate. To continue contraction, ATP must be regenerated.

    During the early part of muscle contraction, ATP is regenerated using phosphate transferred from phosphocreatine stored in the muscles. As that reserve becomes depleted, continued muscle activity relies more upon glycolytic (anaerobic) metabolism. These reactions are relatively, thus support a lower level of muscle effort. At longer durations, the muscles rely more on the aerobic systems.

    Normal muscle stores of phosphocreatine are good for about 10 seconds. However, supplemental creatine increases those reserves, adding a second or two to period over which the phosphagen system is functional.

    For resistance training, that means adding an additional rep when lifting heavy resistance in the 6-8 range - the type of exercise most suited for increasing muscle mass.

    Lifting fewer reps does not overload the phosphagen system, so creatine supplementation is of little added benefit, while higher reps push anaerobic, glycolytic processes.

    You're off a bit with both your biochem and the final explanation of the "phosphagen system" in regards to being of little benefit with lower repetition schemes. Remember, the intensity of the activity has a lot to do with ATP production, usage and waste excretion.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.