Posted On:12/05/2005 4:14pm
Style: Yudo, Karate
Only thing I'd like to point out is to at least practice breakfall if you plan to enter Judo tournie. Assuming you don't know it.
Posted On:12/05/2005 4:39pm
Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu
I don't see why there is such a debate of this. Both arts are adapted to their respective rulesets. Talking about history, in the late 1800s, early 1900s, there was a school of Jiu-jitsu/Judo called Fusen Ryu that specialized in groundwork. They repeatedly defeated those who did not specialize in that area of Jiu-jitsu. This is the same kind of situation that you would find with BJJ and Judo. Of course, style vs. style arguments are generally a bad thing to do, since it very much depends on the practitioner, but I'm just talking history here. If I'm way off base here on the nature of the convo, though, please correct me.
This is also why, in my opinion, it would be best to try to cross-train between Judo and BJJ, which is something that I would ideally like to do when I start with grappling training.
As I stated earlier, Judo was a collection of Jiu-jitsu styles, once such style was the Fusen Ryu. Fusen was a school of Jiu-jitsu which specialized in Ground Work (Ne Waza). In 1900, the Kodokan challenged the Fusen Ryu school to a contest. At that time Judo did not have Ne Waza (ground fighting techniques), so instead they fought standing up, as Kano had been taught in both the Tenshin Shinyo Ryu and Kito Ryu systems he studied. Both Kito Ryu and Tenshin Shinyo Ryu had excellent striking skills and effective throws.
When Kodokan Judo practitioners fought the practitioners of Fusen Ryu Jiu-Jitsu, the Kodokan practitioners realized that there was no way they could defeat the Kodokan Judoka standing, thus they decided to use their superior ground fighting skills. When the Kodokan fighters and the Fusen Ryu men began to fight, the Jiu-Jitsu practitioners immediately went to the guard position ( lying on their backs in front of their opponents in order to control them with the use of their legs). The Kodokan Judoka didn't know what to do, and then the Fusen Ryu practitioners took them to the ground, using submission holds to win the matches. This was the first real loss that the Kodokan had experienced in eight years.
There's lots of other interesting information on the history of Jiu-jitsu on that website, if you want to read it.
Last edited by sidran; 12/05/2005 4:42pm at .
Reason: formatting in quote
Posted On:12/05/2005 4:40pm
I didn't even watch the video because I already know what it looks like. I have competed quite a bit in both Judo and BJJ at the mid levels.
The ambiguity of the rulesets are obvious. One thing I haven't seen is a Judoka apply his forte's in BJJ matches with the sole intention of not engaging in the ground game. By that I mean I have yet to see a Judoka throw someone, refuse to go to the ground, and wait for the opponent to stand again to be thrown. IMHO I think that would be some cool ****. But the reality is he will be warned and eventually disqualified. And would be very much like the BJJ guys who go to Judo tournaments to try some weak ass throw, drag their opponents to the ground and finish with a submission, but in no way trying to play standard "Judo".
If you look at GQ there was a great example of this happening last year. Jay Heiron just took fools down over and over and over with his wrestling skills. He made no attempt to engage on the ground. Rather he would just dump them with high amplitude throws to get way ahead on points. Submission specialists were completely stumped.
The look on a Judokas face when clock choked after turtling from his failed Seoi = The same look on a BJJ's face after being 2 second Ipponed.
Posted On:12/06/2005 12:12am
Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
WhiteShark I don't understand your criticism of my post? Both people sucked, that was the sorriest single leg I've ever seen, and for a supposed black belt judoka can't defend that he also sucks.
I don't need to see anything else, so I am assuming you will be performing labotomy's on a few of the people who posted the exact same thing...
I'll make one when I can find one I like.
Posted On:12/06/2005 4:04am
Style: Kuk Sul Do/Capoeira/BJJ
Originally Posted by Dr. Claus
No, I'd say his submission skill level was similar to that of a purple belt.
I question the purple belt because of the take down skill level and the execution of the submission. I am judging it based on the short footage. Most purple belts I train with have a great flow in their game. Again, just based on the small footage.
Posted On:12/06/2005 6:25am
Style: judo, karate, jap jj
i am not usually one to bash referees but this one sucked....
the bjj guy is halfway through applying a triangle (ie, has it locked and is waiting for the tap) and he stands them up....
also as a judoka that has crosstrained a bit of bjj, i must say that the first 3 lessons were REAL eye openers. and after about 10 lessons i started tapping (EDIT: some of)) the blackbelts at judo class
Last edited by roly; 12/06/2005 6:29am at .
Posted On:12/06/2005 10:29am
Style: Taijiquan - Judo
One thing I like about Judo is the fact that you can win by throws, pins, armlocks or chokes. And so you see good players with different styles & strategies and that makes things interesting. It also means that you have to be proficient in several areas - or you are vulnerable to someone who can find and exploit your weaknesses.
Maybe watching that tourney clip will help my foot heal faster...
Posted On:12/06/2005 1:23pm
Originally Posted by _Mick_
If an elite level Judoka competes against an elite lever BJJ guy, the winner will depend on the rule set.
This is one of the smartest things I've heard all day
Posted On:12/06/2005 1:26pm
Style: Shi Ja Quan
JUDO CHOP !!
Posted On:12/06/2005 1:36pm
Originally Posted by Ronin
JUDO CHOP !!
Give it up Ronin, Austin Powers is retired!
Actually, does anyone know origin of how name Judo chop got started?
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