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  1. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 6:05am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Protein supplements/carb energy drinks and recovery

    I would like to look into supplements for recovery and to have more energy for workouts.

    My diet is OK, I eat around 5 times a day, probably well balanced with meat, veggies, brown bread, pasta, rice & water but not exactly measured and logged. Not yet at least.

    My schedule is:
    Monday Muay Thai
    Tuesday 5KM run
    Wed MT
    Thu MT
    Fri/Sat/Sun one 5KM run one of those days

    I recently upped my training to the above schedule. Until recently I was working out 2xMT, 1xJudo/week.

    I currently drink a post workout 500ml carb energy drink, lightly mixed, more for rehydration but for some energy as well.

    I'm 6'4 and 160lbs.

    I'm not doing any weights yet. I want to get used to the above schedule and then add weights in.

    So what supplements would you recommend for recovery & building muscle tissue? My target is going up to 180lbs or more.

    However I'm not yet at the stage where I do weights and have a precisely measured diet.

    Options:

    1) No supplements at all. Get your diet measured precisely first and then look into supplements.

    2) You must do weights for protein shakes to have any effect

    3) One post-workout carb energy drink to pack the muscles with glycogen.

    4) One Protein shake in the morning, one post-workout.

    5) One protein shake in the morning. Protein shake post-MT workout. Carb energy drink post-5KM run.

    6) One slow (casein) protein shake in the morning, one fast (whey) protein shake post workout, one slow (casein) protein shake before bed

    7) Variation of 6 with Fast protein shakes post-MT workouts, and carb energy drinks post-running

    8) eat 16 chickens a day

    9) You know nothing noob, you're a wimp, STFU

    10) <your own suggestion here>

    which one?

    thx
  2. Ender is offline
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    Not Enough Weight

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 9:35am

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     Style: BJJ, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    6'4'' and 160? The only supp you need is FOOD. Post-workout you should be taking in a mix of carbs and fast-absorbing protein (i.e. whey isolate), but other than that, just cram your face. Start hitting the weights soon. And ditch the 5k runs...Muay Thai is a round-based sport; you're better off working anaerobic endurance. Try high intensity sprint intervals or Tabata intervals instead.
    "Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to perform one more action with certainty."
    -Yamamoto Tsunetomo
  3. PEtrainer is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 9:50am


     Style: wrestling, Bjj, fi ting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ....and toss in weight training NOW! I think it would be even better for you than the running (time better spent). If you want to get anerobic conditioning from it, then keep your rest between sets short and your reps higher.

    Do they have KFC if the UK? If so that should be the base of your diet. Jezzuz...
    6'5" 160 are you sure that is right? I werestled 164 in high school at 5'9" and I was shredded wheat.
  4. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 9:52am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender
    6'4'' and 160? The only supp you need is FOOD. Post-workout you should be taking in a mix of carbs and fast-absorbing protein (i.e. whey isolate), but other than that, just cram your face. Start hitting the weights soon. And ditch the 5k runs...Muay Thai is a round-based sport; you're better off working anaerobic endurance. Try high intensity sprint intervals or Tabata intervals instead.

    How do I mix carbs and protein? Do I take an energy drink, followed by a protein shake? Are there products that provide that mix? Can you suggest any good ones?

    I take your point on the 5k runs, and I'll back off of those, but only once I reach a certain threshold aerobic capacity (base), which I think is a prerequisite to high intensity training. This is where intervals and weights come in.

    Also they fit easily into my lifestyle. I run after work instead of taking the bus (I have an excellent route down St Paul's and the Thames) so I don't need to spend any extra time on it. I would be spending the same time sitting in a bus, and the run is far more preferable:)
  5. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 9:56am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PEtrainer
    ....and toss in weight training NOW! I think it would be even better for you than the running (time better spent). If you want to get anerobic conditioning from it, then keep your rest between sets short and your reps higher.

    Do they have KFC if the UK? If so that should be the base of your diet. Jezzuz...
    6'5" 160 are you sure that is right? I werestled 164 in high school at 5'9" and I was shredded wheat.

    KFC... lots of bad fat man... maybe good for weight gain but I'd say performance will suffer, not improve.

    6'4 160 or roughly that. I'm actually 1.90+something/83kg, so I did a quick conversion. I'm lean, but not thin.
  6. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 10:03am

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    6'4 and 160lbs? Jesus christ dude. Someone buy that man a sammich. **** I'm I'm 6'4" and I'd be dead at 220lbs.

    So to stop making famine victims feel fat, unless you're like 6 inches wide, you just need to EAT. Start by logging, not just watching, but logging everything you eat. Write it down. Skinny fucks usually eat like high school anorexics but think they're eating a lot.

    If you're thinking about competing in MT, ask your trainer about this because if you're healthy at 160-180 that's gold, but otherwise like the man said - no 5k runs, do "high intensity sprint intervals" instead and hit the weights.

    Change your diet to get at least 50% of your required calories from protein. eat more veggies. If you have that high a metabolism you should not only drink a protein shake with every meal and after every workout, but have one before you go to bed and set an alarm to wake you up to have one in the middle of the night. ****, eat a pint of rocky road before bed.

    For a quickie guess check http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html. It's not precise, but it's not far off either.

    For more on eating and weights and recovery read this - it's good. http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showth...hreadid=197034

    edit:
    the running. Do you want to run for distance or do you want to build muscle? those two activities are opposed and that's why heavy weightlifters don't do the cardio.
    Last edited by PirateJon; 11/30/2005 10:09am at .
  7. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 10:15am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleMeister
    How do I mix carbs and protein? Do I take an energy drink, followed by a protein shake? Are there products that provide that mix? Can you suggest any good ones?
    Non-fat chocolate milk has the perfect ratio of carbs to protein. The "best" stuff to take is good growin food. Chicken and rice. Steak and taters.


    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleMeister
    I take your point on the 5k runs, and I'll back off of those, but only once I reach a certain threshold aerobic capacity (base), which I think is a prerequisite to high intensity training. This is where intervals and weights come in.
    If you can do a 5k run your "base" is fine. You need to change from aerobic to anaerobic.
  8. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 10:19am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK sorry got that wrong. Make that 6'35/180lbs. I'm a metric kind of guy.
  9. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 11:04am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateNinja5000
    For more on eating and weights and recovery read this - it's good. http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showth...hreadid=197034
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PirateNinja5000 again.
    Way cool. BTW - the article has been removed. I had to read all pages of the thread to get to a link into Google cache. All at work. Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateNinja5000
    the running. Do you want to run for distance or do you want to build muscle? those two activities are opposed and that's why heavy weightlifters don't do the cardio.
    To be perfectly honest I want both, although right now MT is the focus.

    I don't want to gain tons of muscle, although obviously I wouldn't mind another 20-30 lbs.

    The main question is supplements for recovery. Realistically, I already train 5 times a week, and I don't want to overcook it.
  10. Ender is offline
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    Not Enough Weight

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 1:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My favorite combo is a serving of gatorade (just buy the powder) mixed with a flavorless whey powder. Add 12 oz. water, and you're good to go. There *are* some other "recovery" supplements out there that can help facilitate CNS recovery after intense activity, but they're really intended more for strength-training induced stressors than skill/endurance work like your MT classes. If you're still curious, google " Biotest Power Drive."
    RE building a baseline "aerobic capacity," this is BS. Aerobic training facilitates improvement only in the aerobic metabolic pathways, whereas anaerobic conditioning can lead to both aerobic and anaerobic improvement. Dr. Izumi Tabata (whose intervals I mentioned earlier) has done extensive research on the topic. Additionally, aerobic capacity is in no way a prerequisite for strength training unless you suffer from acute asthma. That being said, if you like it, by all means continue; just know that the benefits will not translate well to your other athletic activities. Bottom line: hit the iron as soon as possible!
    "Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to perform one more action with certainty."
    -Yamamoto Tsunetomo

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