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View Poll Results: What is chi/ki to you?

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139. You may not vote on this poll
  • At 1.2 million currently, depending on what I ate for breakfast

    6 4.32%
  • Requires me to register my hands as lethal weapons

    0 0%
  • An energy field that surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together

    15 10.79%
  • The secret to my martial art

    1 0.72%
  • Makes me better than I was before. Better, stronger, faster

    4 2.88%
  • Bio/magnetic/electric fields/waves/radiation

    9 6.47%
  • A chinese concept for unknown phenomenon

    35 25.18%
  • The tickling sensation at the back of my throat

    7 5.04%
  • Bullshit

    62 44.60%
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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2013 9:58pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp.negative View Post
    Due to the necro'dness of this thread, I say, hey why not.

    It's a means of describing a concept. If you punch me in the gut and make me puke/lose the fight, and you believe it was chi, then I can't disagree with you, because you did exactly what you wanted to. If building/developing/controlling/channeling the chi is how you believe you get strong, and it works, then nobody can say anything else.
    This is not profound nor is it correct. If this is your personal opinion and what you follow cool. Yes, anyone can say something else and yes anyone can disagree.
  2. OwlMatt is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2013 11:15pm


     Style: aikido

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp.negative View Post
    Due to the necro'dness of this thread, I say, hey why not.

    It's a means of describing a concept. If you punch me in the gut and make me puke/lose the fight, and you believe it was chi, then I can't disagree with you, because you did exactly what you wanted to. If building/developing/controlling/channeling the chi is how you believe you get strong, and it works, then nobody can say anything else.
    So, if I try something and it works, my understanding of how it works is indisputable? I think every scientist ever would have a problem with that thinking.
  3. Bneterasedmynam is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2013 11:24pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by W. Rabbit View Post
    You're all wrong, because you all are using a definition of chi beside the original definition, which is:



    an ancient pictogram that uses imagery of steam rising from cooked rice to symbolize the breath of life.
    Ok so what the **** does it mean then?? The only experience I have with it is ki being just a term from training I did a long time ago. It was used mostly as a way of saying concentrate. So can you explain what it does mean??
  4. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2013 11:53pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
    Ok so what the **** does it mean then?? The only experience I have with it is ki being just a term from training I did a long time ago. It was used mostly as a way of saying concentrate. So can you explain what it does mean??
    It means you aren't quite dead yet.
  5. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 5:48am


     Style: FormerShotokan,Kickboxing

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp.negative View Post
    It's a means of describing a concept. If you punch me in the gut and make me puke/lose the fight, and you believe it was chi, then I can't disagree with you, because you did exactly what you wanted to. If building/developing/controlling/channeling the chi is how you believe you get strong, and it works, then nobody can say anything else.
    If I understand you correctly, you say that because science does not deal with what's true anymore, only in what is useful, therefore, you could say that this guy's concept of Ki is as useful simplification - as Newtonian mechanics is a useful simplification in many cases.

    But this concept of ki is not just a simplification, but also adds some statements - in this case that exercises of channeling ki lead to a better punch. Those can be (and probably have been) tested and falsified.

    After that, you have to drop those statements.

    ----

    In the end, Chi is just a concept with too many definitions; some of them useful, some useless, some trivial, some just plain bullshit.

    If we really want to discuss chi, we should collect all those definitions and discuss them seperately.

    Because I'm bored, here are some definitions that seem to be around:

    Chi1: A logogram meaning "steam rising from rice", meaning being alive, what W. Rabbit says

    Chi2: Subject of phenomenal perception - similar to some concepts of "soul" in the western cultures. "What makes us more than an automaton/a philosophical zombie (yes, that term exists)". Similar to Chi1, but reduced to percieving qualia (google it).

    Chi3: psychological temperaments; emotions

    Chi4: breath

    Chi5: metabolism

    Chi6: the electrial currents running through your nerves

    Chi7: something like the above, but with "energies", not in a physical sense. What TCM uses.

    Chi8: a field of esoterical energy, an "aura"

    Chi9: biomechanical concept of physical force. Like as in a punch you use a certain set of movements to put as much bodyweight into it as possible, you could see that as a point (of ki) traveling from your foot throught your body to your fist.

    Chi10: magical force - what Jedis and Liu Kang use

    Chi11: morality

    Chi12: gravity

    Chi13: concentration

    Chi14: Air

    Chi15: 22nd letter of the greek alphabet

    Chi16:
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfujew View Post
    "chi" is just what happens when those dormant synapses in our brains and bodies fire up.
    Chi17:
    Quote Originally Posted by A.D.D View Post
    Chi is the reason that there is so much debate over Stem Cell research.
    If you saw that episode of South Park where Christopher Reeves eats all those fetuses then you know what I am talking about.

    And any combination thereof.
    Last edited by nils; 7/01/2013 6:18am at .
  6. nils is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 6:45am


     Style: FormerShotokan,Kickboxing

    2
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From those definitions, 3,4,5,6,11,12,13,14 and 15 are trivial. If you want to say "breath", just use the english word for it.

    Nr. 7 can be researched by experiment. As far as I know, some studies suggest that TCM produces measurable results, while others do not. Still, since the human body is a highly complex system, even if it were proven that TCM works, that does not mean that it works the way the philosophy behind it assumes ist does. At this point there is no evidence that I know of that points to the existence of some kind of nonphysical energy.

    Definitions 8 and 10 lack evidence. Either no such thing exists or aquiring magical powers leads to not competing in martial arts or partaking in any kind of scientific experiment whatsoever.

    Definition 9 can be useful to explain some concepts of bodymechanics, but I'd prefer to use terms that are more exact.

    16 and 17 have been discussed in this thread.

    This leaves definitions 1 and 2, which is what the whole "philosophy of mind" is about. Discussing that would probably be too much off-topic, since it has not much to do with martial arts.
  7. W. Rabbit is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 1:28pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pushups; I googled "Qualia".

    Nils' post is insightful. The term chi/ki/qi (being as old as it is) has had more theories, bullshit, and New Age quackery tacked onto it than most words I can think of.

    From the start, 氣 was a simple observation. The ancient Chinese noticed the steam from rice looked like your breath on a cold morning and somebody made a connection, and drew a picture of "Chi". Now, rational, science-minded folks know there is no direct link between boiled water vapor and all the complexities required to power a human being, but to the ancient Chinese, the picture was enough to convey this simple idea.

    Fast forward several thousand years and suddenly this once simple idea is today used as a justification for a hundred different weird concepts, ranging from somewhat anatomical to the metaphysically absurd.

    The irony is that the same concept exists in other ancient cultures (e.g. Indian, Jewish, Latin), but none of their terms for life-breath (prana, ruach, nephesh, spiritus) have taken hold on popular culture as "Chi". And so they have not been similarly bastardized (or maybe they have and I just don't know because I don't read New Age crap).

    I use the term "chi" (actually "hei") because the language of my art is Cantonese, and so are the names of all exercises/techniques. I stopped wondering what Chi was when I realized it needed no further explanation than 氣, and I just keep training without worrying about my 氣.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 7/01/2013 1:33pm at .
  8. big maclol is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 1:45pm


     Style: mt/bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know much about Chi but Chinese herbal medicine is awesome!
  9. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 1:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is cheeky to me?

    Umm........most of AssCowboy's avatars?
  10. W. Rabbit is offline
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    insight combined with intel, fuse, and dynamite

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2013 1:53pm

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     Style: (Hung Ga+BJJ+MT+JKD) ^ Qi

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    Quote Originally Posted by big maclol View Post
    I don't know much about Chi but Chinese herbal medicine is awesome!
    You're not supposed to drink it.
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