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View Poll Results: What is chi/ki to you?

Voters
139. You may not vote on this poll
  • At 1.2 million currently, depending on what I ate for breakfast

    6 4.32%
  • Requires me to register my hands as lethal weapons

    0 0%
  • An energy field that surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together

    15 10.79%
  • The secret to my martial art

    1 0.72%
  • Makes me better than I was before. Better, stronger, faster

    4 2.88%
  • Bio/magnetic/electric fields/waves/radiation

    9 6.47%
  • A chinese concept for unknown phenomenon

    35 25.18%
  • The tickling sensation at the back of my throat

    7 5.04%
  • Bullshit

    62 44.60%
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  1. PointyShinyBurn is online now
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 2:01pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    To say that you don't believe in qi, essentially says that you don't believe that there is an essential difference between living things and dead. To put it another way, it means that you subscribe to a mechanistic view of the universe and implies that if we look closely enough, eventually we can pinpoint and measure what it is that makes a person dead vs. alive.
    This is exactly what I believe. Thanks for the summary. Your alternative is, in short, alchemy.

    To look for the 'living essence juice' in things to account for life discounts the possibility that it may be an emergent property, i.e. exist only through the combined actions of its various components. For example, no mechanic ever claimed a car drove because of its pervading reservoir of 'driving essence'. It drives because of the complex interactions among its several parts. There is no reason to think life is any different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    measure what it is that makes a person dead vs. alive. So far, no luck with that, therefore, no way to define "qi". Nevertheless, most of us accept that the dead can not be brought back to life no matter how carefully we try to put humpty dumpty back together again.
    'Dead' is a term based on the current limits of medical technology. A hundred years ago someone whose heart stopped was very much dead, as no means existed to restart it. Now someone whose brain activity ceases is dead for the same reason.

    What is chi/ki to
    When my younger sister did ballet (before she grew up and got into repetitive beats and obnoxious psychadelics) they persuaded her to adopt the correct posture by imagining a wire stretching from the top of her head up to a hook in the clouds.

    Chi is the sky hook.
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 11/29/2005 2:16pm at .
  2. mean_liar is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 4:23pm


     Style: TaiChiPrayingMantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chi is the Force. Its the easiest way to explain it. Its a metaphor, its the difference between life and death, its the aqua vitae. Its all been said before.

    I'm more curious about the stylistic breakdown between people that think its BS and those that don't. I'd be surprised to see anyone with a few years experience in TaiChi or BaGua saying that its BS. At a certain point it becomes self-evident and trying to explain it doesn't do anything to reveal or illuminate the subject.
  3. Toby Christensen is offline

    Martial mediocrite

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 4:31pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Using bag as aggro outlet

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Qi is a metaphor for kinetic energy transfer.

    Identical ideas are found in other cultures

    Now for God's sake, that settles it.
    What am I?:

    I am ignorant, thieving, lying, hypocrital, violent and thoroughly self obssessed. I steal from others to make myself look better, only to make the item or information worse.

    I go on and on and ON about how brave and strong and brilliant and wealthy I am, but in the end I'm all mouth and no trousers.

    That's right children, I'm your average AMERICUNT! and I exemplify AMERICA!:911flag:

    :occasion1

    JohnnyCache's "retort" proving how much he knows about medicine and geography and First World countries:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=78188&page=22

    Yes, through persistent lack of work and the cultivation of ignorance, he is a true American.
  4. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 7:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    chi. . .is.

    `~/
  5. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 7:40pm


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    Qi is an untranslatable term for a subjective phenomena. It is "that which animates". It is the difference between dead or alive. It can not be reduced to physics because machines don't have it. You may as well just call it "life force" and be done with it.

    To say that you don't believe in qi, essentially says that you don't believe that there is an essential difference between living things and dead. To put it another way, it means that you subscribe to a mechanistic view of the universe and implies that if we look closely enough, eventually we can pinpoint and measure what it is that makes a person dead vs. alive. So far, no luck with that, therefore, no way to define "qi". Nevertheless, most of us accept that the dead can not be brought back to life no matter how carefully we try to put humpty dumpty back together again.

    Maybe eventually this will change. For now though. . .

    Isn't that the same thing as (in western terms) someones soul? That's how I usually hear it described (outside of my martial arts experience, anyway).

    In my kung fu class, chi is barely mentioned at all. Once, a long while ago, I remember one of the instructors saying that chi is essentially "flow", or in other words, the ability to string mulitple techniques together without stopping and starting. "Chi" is only heard regularly in my class in the name of a breathing excercise we do in the beginning of class, and only because its in the name. It is never attributed to energy or anything mystical.

    To me, chi really is just the combination of good technique/body mechanics, focus, thinking clearly, breathing, and your strength when you execute a technique. I see no reason to declare such things as "chi" or "qi" in a martial arts class, when you can refer to these things by their actual names. Also, "gathering chi" as I've heard people say before would really IMO just be a combination of self-hypnosis and isometric excercise.

    I voted for "a chinese concept for an unknown phenomenon" because it was the closest thing to my idea.
    Last edited by sidran; 11/29/2005 7:45pm at .
  6. OZZ is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 7:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sidran
    Isn't that the same thing as (in western terms) someones soul? That's how I usually hear it described (outside of my martial arts experience, anyway).

    In my kung fu class, chi is barely mentioned at all. Once, a long while ago, I remember one of the instructors saying that chi is essentially "flow", or in other words, the ability to string mulitple techniques together without stopping and starting. "Chi" is only heard regularly in my class in the name of a breathing excercise we do in the beginning of class, and only because its in the name. It is never attributed to energy or anything mystical.

    To me, chi really is just the combination of good technique/body mechanics, focus, thinking clearly, breathing, and your strength when you execute a technique. I see no reason to declare such things as "chi" or "qi" in a martial arts class, when you can refer to these things by their actual names. Also, "gathering chi" as I've heard people say before would really IMO just be a combination of self-hypnosis and isometric excercise.
    This is the best post on the subject so far.
    We practice Buddhist Chi Gung breathing exercises in our classes. Focussed breathing can do wonders for your body, anyone who hasn't tried it should STFU and TRY it. Don't disregard it when you haven't given it a chance.
  7. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 8:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    Qi is an untranslatable term for a subjective phenomena. It is "that which animates". It is the difference between dead or alive. It can not be reduced to physics because machines don't have it. You may as well just call it "life force" and be done with it.

    To say that you don't believe in qi, essentially says that you don't believe that there is an essential difference between living things and dead. To put it another way, it means that you subscribe to a mechanistic view of the universe and implies that if we look closely enough, eventually we can pinpoint and measure what it is that makes a person dead vs. alive. So far, no luck with that, therefore, no way to define "qi".
    Um, yeah. What he said.
  8. xingyifa is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 10:41pm


     Style: none currently

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omar's post is just a roundabout version of a "god of gaps" argument. "Science can't explain X so Y might be true."
    Nice try but I could also say that vital animation is due to god or aliens or pink unicorns and while it might not make as much sense to your current worldview, it would be just as logically valid.
  9. mean_liar is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 12:15am


     Style: TaiChiPrayingMantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would have a LOT less conviction for belief in chi if it weren't for TaiChi.

    When I'm really 'in the groove' with my Mantis, I can feel it and that feeling is what I identify as 'chi'. But its manifestation is of speed, coordination, and power with a slight hint of something weird: i.e., something that can be dismissed as simply mechanical and devoid of mystic overtones.

    However, when I'm 'in the groove' with my TaiChi, I can feel the chi. I mean that it is an identifiable something external to my body, and its very keen on gently pushing and pulling me. There are internal factors like the increase in body temp and the hot hands which I suppose could all be biomechanical in nature, but its accompanied by such strange external tactile phenomena that I just assume its 'chi', since no other explanation has so successfully predicted its behavior.
  10. onetimebullet is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 2:39am


     Style: natures punching bag

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    spiritual journey

    kundalini anyone?

    i think this is a good site on this.

    very unexplainable... in the anime sense i think that it is fake. your not gonna shoot fireballs from your hands, just get over it.

    in a spiritual or martial arts view i believe in it.
    im a spiritual and religious weirdo though so... ehhh

    check it
    http://www.envirohealthtech.com/chi_energy.htm
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