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  1. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 2:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree w/PeterH - this belongs in another forum. . .would some kind MODERATOR please move it?

    Thanks.
    `~/
  2. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 2:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meex
    I agree w/PeterH - this belongs in another forum. . .would some kind MODERATOR please move it?

    Thanks.
    `~/
    Done!
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  3. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 3:10pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    Yes.

    Most people only focus on the arm movement. From contacting and sticking.

    They forgot about the waist movements and steps.

    In Tai Chi push hands, the waist and the steps are the keys.

    Or use the “body“ to move the arms.

    etc etc,
    Hips shift back when you pon (probably misspelling that, I'm still a noob at Tai Chi). It's much like the initial shift back when recieving some strikes with Aikido, or turning with a punch when you get hit.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  4. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Soft & hard are always going to be terms that are difficult to explain in a martial context. Especially for us westerners. It's our thinking, more than our understanding, that causes the difficulty.

    But, the ultimate attainable skill in a hard art, is invariably a soft skill. And, vice versa.
    Hard & soft are but two sides of the same coin, and understanding can be found through seeing, feeling, and doing. As a teacher does an example for students, he must then, do it TO each student, and then have the student do it to him, to correct the little details that make a technique work.

    In most CMA, I have found that techniques/forms done correctly, work by themselves. No additions are necessary (extraneous motion, additional muscles brought into play, etc.) But, students who aren't being taught tend toward watching a technique, then 'making' it work without having the proper mechanics or knowledge to do so correctly.

    So, what am I saying here? ? ?
    I forgot.
    `~/

    Hm.
    With 'soft power'
    you may yield while advancing,
    you may redirect while attacking,
    you may attack while moving away,
    and you may stand in one place and
    direct all around you.

    We are dealing with chi, after all. . .
  5. SPJ is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:01pm


     Style: Tai Ji

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PH;

    Good point.

    Peng is the Pinyin spelling.

    Yes, by creating some distance, we have more room or elbow room to maneuver.

    Sitting back on hip also lowers your center of gravity.

    We also have to consider the waist "room", if not availabe, have to move steps.

    Yielding is a moving dynamic happening at 3 levels. The arms, the waist and the legs/steps.

    The steps or legs follow the arms or the arms and legs follow each other.
    Last edited by SPJ; 11/28/2005 4:19pm at .
  6. SPJ is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:16pm


     Style: Tai Ji

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Meex:

    You are very correct. The soft side and the hard side are coexistent and dependent on each other.

    1. yes, you may yield to your left while advance to your right by rotating the waist or steps. (positional or postural)

    2. redirect is a big topic. we yield to the front of the opponent's force and we approach it from the side with a circular movement. once in contact, we may "guide" his force away from us. laterally, up or downward etc.

    3. one example, I can mention, you yield the top level by leaning back, you may do a low kick to the shin or advance at low level. etc

    4. usually you still want to move to a new position if you could.
  7. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:22pm


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    3. one example, I can mention, you yield the top level by leaning back, you may do a low kick to the shin or advance at low level. etc

    4. usually you still want to move to a new position if you could.

    One of the successes I've had at push hands involves mixing in ikkyu from Aikiod. In stationary, as my opponet reaches, I keep contact on his wrist, pon(peng), and retract and move across my torso my hand, to maintain contact, my opponent has to expose his lead elbow, allowing me to give it a push and into a takedown.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  8. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Peter, is there ANY situation a suplex won't solve? I mean, can you somehow turn it into a soft strike?
  9. liokault is offline

    Moron

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 6:09pm


     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    Peter, is there ANY situation a suplex won't solve? I mean, can you somehow turn it into a soft strike?
    No, and yes!
  10. Meex is offline
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    Loving Father

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 8:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    1. yes, you may yield to your left while advance to your right by rotating the waist or steps. (positional or postural)
    You misunderstood me. . .why rotate the waist/hips at all?
    Why not yield to a direct attack to your front, while advancing forward yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    2. redirect is a big topic. we yield to the front of the opponent's force and we approach it from the side with a circular movement. once in contact, we may "guide" his force away from us. laterally, up or downward etc.
    A redirect is a little thing. The nature of WHEN to be soft, or hard is difficult.
    Yield when doing so will give you advantage. Otherwise, redirect and stay in
    your established position until you no longer wish to be there.
    Move with a purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    3. one example, I can mention, you yield the top level by leaning back, you may do a low kick to the shin or advance at low level. etc
    Or, I redirect your advance while advancing, choosing not to yield.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ
    4. usually you still want to move to a new position if you could.
    Or, not.

    As I said. . .we are dealing with chi.


    `~/
    Last edited by Meex; 11/29/2005 7:50pm at .
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