By these "sacred cows" I have noticeably improved my game. I won't change what I'm doing because what I'm doing quite apparently works. There is no need to make change because there is no evidence to suggest that what I'm doing isn't working. I don't spar continuously, and yet I see my sparring improve every time I step in the ring. How can this be when all the things I'm doing outside of sparring are supposedly counter productive??
It has been my experience that often times peeps become good in spite of, not because of, the teaching - coaching they receive.
Originally Posted by Kidspatula
You say what you are doing is "working" and yet you won't even consider exploring other avenues of approach that could very well provide you with even greater and faster improvement.
Your response to the above is: "I'm satisfied with how I'm improving." and that really sets the matter 4 square. You are "satisfied" and after 4 decades I maintain the Inner Fire ... the Hunger ... the Drive ... to improve and to improve as quickly-efficiently-effectively as possible.
No need for you to post on this thread Kid, you know it all ... have got this thing sussed out flawlessly ... and are merrily skipping down the yellow brick road.
See you this Summer and slay all your Sacred Cows.
I tend to agree with JFS about intensity. My evidence is from my own experience with a few different coaches. I swam and ran X-country and outdoor track in high school. I am also pretty gifted when it comes to Cardio. (I've run Triathalons on a whim)
The best way to illustrate this is the 2 coaching approaches in high school. My X-country and Track coach was a multiple time state champion and had the longest win streak in high school history for awhile. Something like 700 dual meets. He was a great coach. My Swim coach was also the football coach and had a good team that was fed talented swimmers. He made strong swimmers out of weak swimmers and tired swimmers out of great swimmers. We also won some state championships but nothing like track.
X-country practice compared to Swimming was laughably easy and i never understood why until much later in life. We would run everyday on a specific schedule to build up or tear down musce depending on the season. We would have hard distance runs on monday and long flat runs on tuesday with an easy run on wed and a real speed workout on thrusday followed by recopvery friday and a long slow run on saturday. Swimming was hard sprints all the time and miles of yardage. Swimmers got shoulder problems and runners got state championships.
The key was using one or two exhausting workouts a week mixed with recovery time. Versus swimings ultimately destructive approach of hard workouts every day.
In comparison my current coach doesn't ahve as much control over my schedule so he has to apprais our condition at each practice somedays it is easy and lots of technique. That is not less valuable than a painful day of execises.
Good example: We are training Thai pads. Coach is wearing a belly pad and holding thai pads and moving around so I can kick a real target. If I am sharp and fresh enough this can be easy because it increases skill. If not he will just make it a workout and have me pound away like a bag. Or if i get tired and my form sucks he just waves me off and does no more technique training. Sloppy training is not valuable.
Im not gonna say that I know it all, but I would venture to say that perhaps you DON'T know it all. If a group of people are training in a certain manner and they are successful with what they do (boxing coach holds 11 titles, 6 national amateur, 3 international amateur and 2 professional heavyweight titles) I will do what they believe works. I would venture to say that someone who has been training amateur and professional fighters and trained olympians over the course of the past 35 years knows a thing or two more than you.
Originally Posted by JFS USA
Where are the studies you have for proving the ineffectuality of training methods of world champion and olympic athletes? I'm sorry, JFS, but I'm not gonna swallow your **** just because you say it.
Ok, I finally got through this entire post, from start to finish. I've read what you consider to be negative attributes associated with the use of training devices, and please correct me if I am wrong.
You dislike heavy bag, speed bags, rope work etc, because of its lack of human qualities. You feel that science has proven that the benefits of this type of training are outweighed by the detrimental effects of this kind of training.
What then would you suggest a training fighter to do instead of rely on machines and bags and such? It is not really plausible to say that they only fight humans all of the time, because I have a distinct lack of volunteers when I want to practive hitting full power and full speed.
Last edited by Jason74; 11/28/2005 1:53pm at .
Reason: To correct my shitty grammar.
About real MA? **** your group of people. Tell them I said so ... any time Kid, any time any or all of them want to show up and be permanently divested of their bullshit approaches I am available. All at no charge. Can't match up? Then STFU as in MA it's all in the "doing" and nothing else cuts it.
Originally Posted by Kidspatula
As I have posted in the past, the URLs to the studies will be posted at the conclusion of this thread.
Where are the studies you have for proving the ineffectuality of training methods of world champion and olympic athletes?
As I have stated in the past ... at all of what, 21 years of age, you know it all. Why bother posting?
No problem Kidspatula and no need to apologize. Life has a unique equalizing effect to it. In time, you might have reason to look back and see ... see very clearly ... that you were totally full of ****.
I'm sorry, JFS, but I'm not gonna swallow your **** just because you say it.
Come this Summer I slay all your Sacred Cows. Be a good Girl and bring some or all of those stellar learned peeps you cite to in your first paragraph. I mean, surely since they "know" so much they won't have much problems taking me on and "doing" something with "all" their knowledge.
After all, I'm just an old Man whose real World experiences can't possibly stack up to the keepers of Sacred Cows.
I got $100 for every one of them that says I destroy them. Bring it on.
Last edited by JFS USA; 11/28/2005 1:54pm at .
Close but not quite correct. Adjunct methods, inclusive of machines - devices and even some protocols far removed from the target activity are of value ... at the right time and for the correct amount of time.
Originally Posted by Jason74
Pure skill work ... refine ... polish .. smooth out. You don't temper steel by putting it in the fire and leaving it there. Quality vs. quantity.
What then would you suggest a training fighter to do instead of rely on machines and bags and such? It is not really plausible to say that they only fight humans all then time,
Find another school - club or move to some more favorable geographical location if possible.
because I have a distinct lack of volunteers when I want to practive hitting full power and full speed.Jason
Come visit us in Maryland at the monthly Throwdowns... we have plenty of peeps that will bring it to you any way you want it.
For skill work, what are you suggesting? How would a fighter, for instance, work to perfect a jab or a hook?
Originally Posted by JFS USA
I think that the concept of fighting continuously does not account for the fact that fighting injures the fighters. A mild concussion puts you out of fighting for 30 days at the bare minimum and 90 is preferred. How can you account for this during periods of injury? In other words, what kind of training would you have a fighter who has been injured work on with your model?
Last edited by Jason74; 11/28/2005 2:03pm at .
Reason: To correct my shitty grammar and to clairfy a point.
Shadow box in a mirror. Be honest with what you see and correct defects immediately.
Originally Posted by Jason74
Dude, you aren't getting any sympathy considerations from me. I'm a walking train wreck and have no hesitation about going all out any time.
I think that the concept of fighting continuously does not account for the fact that fighting injures the fighters. A mild concussion puts you out of fighting for 30 days at the bare minimum and 90 is preferred.
Fighting = Injury ... and it's not always the opponent who gets injured. Accept it, get over it ... or find something else to do ... you know ... take up knitting.
Mental visualization and imagery work are good things.
How can you account for this during periods of injury? In other words, what kind of training would you have a fighter who has been injured work on with your model?
On a note:
I like my heavy bag, my spar-pro and my grappling dummy.
* pulls down pants and moons everyone *
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