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  1. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason74
    Shadow boxing has its place in my training, but I dont see that as really a total solution to learning a skill, especially a pugilistic skill.
    Read your post ... again and do try to keep your Mind a bit open. What I suggested is a stop gap measure ... not the "alpha - omega" solution.

    I never once asked for your sympathy, truth be known, I neither need it nor desire it. In my opinion, if you are "going all out" all the time and not suffering injuries, I call into question your workout partners skill, or your definition of "all out."
    You know what, punk ... go **** your MOMMY. You bring your smart ass to any Maryland Throwdown and I'll straighten you out ... permanently. I've been in more real World fights across all parameters ranging from the street to the modern battle field than you will EVER see in your miserable shitrat life.

    When I have injured myself or all my training partners through too much contact, what have I accomplished?
    You have accomplished establishing the FACT that you are ALL a bunch of fragile PUSSYS.

    You say that you are a train wreck of injuries, sparring all the time will do that...we, as fighters, have a shelf life. While I think that full contact and semi-contact sparring is necessary to even consider fighting for real, I also recognize that you can not do it all day every day.
    Duh ... nor is there any need. Now why don't you be a good little fukwit and tell us from which direction the Sun rises in the morning.

    As far as fighting equalling injury, check out my tag line, it does not say contributing member, it says professional fighter. I did not buy my way into a place of honor here, I fought for it. I am aware of what fighting is.
    Fukface, I had my LAST Pro fight in 1989 ... your "laurels" don't mean **** to me.

    However, only an idiot does not recognize that when you are injured you can not fight full speed and power against another opponent.
    And only a "tag line touting" shit4brains (such as you) would misconstrue anything posted thus far as advocating for such a ruinous course of action.

    You seem to bring alot of issues to the board in regards to this not being good or that not being good, but when a person, myself, asks some genuine questions you remain vague? What gives?
    What's vague is you ... you are amusing in a vague fashion. There is nothing "vague" about speed, magnitude & angle of force load as presented in machines not matching up with the Human Condition. There is nothing "vague" about machines presenting a completely unrealistic visual cue set. There is nothing "vague" about machines not even coming close to approximating the reaction patterning of a struck Human Being.

    You are a "sexual intellectual" ... a.k.a. a fucking know it all. Why bother posting since things are so very vague for you Missy Pro Fighter?

    What I was trying to see is what is your solution for replacing all the "sacred cows"? I eagerly await your reply.
    Who gives a **** what you wait for ... eagerly or otherwise. Start your own thread based on your "Pro" standing and status. Obviously, you are not satisfied with the pace and clarity of this thread.
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:16pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In response to FeiLo, you obviously have never watched Crocop. He sure as hell isn't feeling anyone out. Yes it's possible that prepared fighters that expect an attack are harder to drop that a chump on the street largely supported by bravado. Don't be naive.
  3. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    JFS made me quote myself because he can't search a thread... ;)

    Is this experience similar to what you are talking about? You haven't specificly mentioned overtraining yet but it seems to be right at the edge of what you are critisizing.
    Jeesh, Dude, I saw and read that post before. What questions? You are advocating for an approach that is grounded in good personal experience. So, again ... what questions?
  4. Jason74 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:18pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FeiLo
    This is something I've wondered about for a while now, at least since JFS's The horse isn't broken thread.

    Why is it that untrained fighters or "street fights" end so quickly compared to MMA/boxing/etc? Is it just because one person is that much better in the street fight? Maybe in MMA matches it's just because both are so well trained that they can ward off most attacks (lol, that's funny)?

    I think it's the same reason endurance isn't as important as it's made out to be. In a fight where someone is willing to commit to maximum force immediately,regardless (to an extent) of their own safety, instead of dancing around "feeling each other out", then the fight will end fairly quickly.

    I'm not suggesting that the one who is more willing to commit will be the winner, just that there is a big diference between sport/MMA and Martial Arts. I'm not trying to advocate "one-hit-kills/KOs" or any such silliness, but I'm not advocating fighting with someone for 15 minutes as valid for self-defense either.

    Watching TUF2 this season really made that "The horse isn't broken" thread a little more relevant to me. When I heard Matt Hughes teaching techniques to open the eyebrow to get the fight stopped due to bleeding, it was a bit of an eye-opener about the UFC fights.

    Hearing (some) MMA folks pop off at TMA/TCMA people about unrealistic training is as humerous as hearing about the value of pressure points and form-work from Dillman.

    Training for a 15 minute bout where I have to conserve energy and use lesser-force strikes while I wait for an opportunity for a KO doesn't seem as "alive" as some people would want me to believe.

    Should I only be training/practicing for 4-5 minutes at a time and only with a live opponent? No. Does it mean that I won't use the heavy bag or do pad work with a partner? No. Alive training, sparring, pad/bag work, and cross-training/MMA is still the answer, but there should be a balance or harmony.

    In other words, I can use a stick to dig a hole in the ground and it'll get the job done, but I'd sure as hell look for a shovel first. I don't think anyone should blindly follow training methodologies without maintaining a critical eye and always looking for new opportunities. If it were that easy, we could all just train BJJ, boxing, and Muay Thai and never need to think about it again.
    Street fights end quickly because there is very little skill at all involved. Having seen literally hundreds of "street fights" mostly what wins is the first person to hit, because in general, one party does not want to fight. Hell, most of the time it is a sucker punch. Further, most fights in the street are a bully picking on an easy target, or two drunks who are stupid enough to go ahead and throw down. Usually there is alot of posturing and bullshit while they gather up their courage, then one runs forward swinging wildly and striking the other, who usually balls up and tries to get away. Its over not because one cant continue, but because one is too busy trying to escape. If both parties do want to fight, then they blow their load quickly and are too gassed to continue for more than 30 or so seconds at best.

    Why train and work on cardio? So that you can last. I'll let some idiot thrash around blindly for 30 seconds while I cover, because after that his ass is mine until the cops show up, when I worked the clubs it was at least 5 minutes to get a beat officer on the scene, so thats four and a half minutes for me to work your ass over. Why is a 15 minute fight better to train for? Because it gives me room to work. The fallacy of your arguement is conserving energy and using lesser strikes. If given an opportunity early in the fight to end it, I will, but if I am fighting someone with some level of skill or aggression, then it might take a minute or two. It is rare to fight someone with skill in the street, but it is more common now with the popularity of UFC and such and the availability of skilled teachers out there now. I would rather prepare for the worst case scenario than the lowest common denominator.
  5. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hugely unwise though it doubtless is to get picky with JFS...

    In the short power thread you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Sure, you become proficient at keying off of a visual cue that looks exactly like a speed bag. Fight many of those do you?
    Sorry if I've misunderstood, but are you saying that there is no such thing as a generalised targeting ability which can be improved? Soldiers don't have to shoot at things that look like people to get better at killing, is it the case that I have to punch only things that look like faces? (note: I am a BJJ guy, and punch both in an embarassing limp-wristed fashion, and rarely)

    What I'm getting at in a more general way is, how exact does the fit to target activity have to be? At its logical extreme there would be no point training with anyone other than clones of my future opponents, and no point in drills other than full contact NHB. (note: This is not a characterisation of JFS' arguement)
  6. FeiLo is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taiji

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    In response to FeiLo, you obviously have never watched Crocop. He sure as hell isn't feeling anyone out. Yes it's possible that prepared fighters that expect an attack are harder to drop that a chump on the street largely supported by bravado. Don't be naive.
    I started to put the response to this in the original post, but thought maybe I could let it slide. My point wasn't to address "proper" street fights, but to suggest that there is more focus on long-term involvement (per confrontation or fight) in MMA/boxing than in self-defense.

    I am in no way suggesting that I would like to screw with a fighter (pro, amature, your mom, or any other person that would kick my ass). What I meant is that in training for fights (MMA, boxing), etc. There is a large amount of time spent focusing on endurance that most of us will not need in a normal self-defense situation. As in, if I'm still around after 5 minutes, it'll be because I'm drastically injured and can't run. Real world (the scr33t) you'd see one of several things, my fist, my knife, my ass running away, but it would never be me jockeying for position for 5 minutes.

    The comment about opening cuts as a strategy fairly highlights my point. It's something I would train for if I were planning for MMA/boxing matches. It's not something that I would be as concerned about if self-defense was an issue.

    As for training/practice/whatever the hell we are calling it in this thread, I just don't think one should focus solely on what would be expected in the ring.
    "KI water is available on request.($20+ donation suggested)."
  7. Jason74 is offline

    Professional Fighter

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:38pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Read your post ... again and do try to keep your Mind a bit open. What I suggested is a stop gap measure ... not the "alpha - omega" solution.



    You know what, punk ... go **** your MOMMY. You bring your smart ass to any Maryland Throwdown and I'll straighten you out ... permanently. I've been in more real World fights across all parameters ranging from the street to the modern battle field than you will EVER see in your miserable shitrat life.



    You have accomplished establishing the FACT that you are ALL a bunch of fragile PUSSYS.



    Duh ... nor is there any need. Now why don't you be a good little fukwit and tell us from which direction the Sun rises in the morning.



    Fukface, I had my LAST Pro fight in 1989 ... your "laurels" don't mean **** to me.



    And only a "tag line touting" shit4brains (such as you) would misconstrue anything posted thus far as advocating for such a ruinous course of action.



    What's vague is you ... you are amusing in a vague fashion. There is nothing "vague" about speed, magnitude & angle of force load as presented in machines not matching up with the Human Condition. There is nothing "vague" about machines presenting a completely unrealistic visual cue set. There is nothing "vague" about machines not even coming close to approximating the reaction patterning of a struck Human Being.

    You are a "sexual intellectual" ... a.k.a. a fucking know it all. Why bother posting since things are so very vague for you Missy Pro Fighter?



    Who gives a **** what you wait for ... eagerly or otherwise. Start your own thread based on your "Pro" standing and status. Obviously, you are not satisfied with the pace and clarity of this thread.
    Well, it seems that someone here has an awfully fragile ego... look at all the cursing for now reason. I'll reply similarly for you...

    Ok you fucktard assmonkey, What I asked for in plain English is your solutions to the problems of using the current "training tools" which you claim is a fallacy. It is not my fault that you fail to clearly and concisely offer a solution to the problem that you highlight. If you have no solution, then you are just bitching, and I have no time for you. If you have a solution, then you seem to have a difficult time in presenting it in a fashion that others can see. All I see is blah blah blah, MMA training sucks...heavy bags not real enough, speed bags not human movement, skipping rope not same as movement in the ring, fine and dandy, but what is your solution to this. Shadow boxing and sparring? Not quite enough to answer the question...so if you are through ranting answer the fucking question at hand. **** or get off the toilet, old man.

    I'll come up to Maryland without a doubt and I will whip your old ass like a red-headed bastard step-child. I'm not at all afraid of some blowhard on the internet who gets all bent out of shape over a few simple fucking questions over a topic that you started. Straighten me out permanently, you bitch, you could not straighten your dick with both hands, much less me. So lay off the threats, ultimately if we want to do war, I'll show up loaded for bear, get my drift? Up until now I have treated you with repect, not that you extended the same favor to me. Now, I'll go forward based on your behavior, act poorly, get treated poorly.

    What you have established is that you cant fight for **** and neither can your crew if you are honestly telling me you go full-bore every time. I've been down that road and it will leave you broken up. The fact that you claim to be able to ignore injury tells me that you are idiots or that your claims are not 100% accurate. Anyone who fights knows that you can not ignore injury for long without it becoming more serious. I'm not talking hang nails and bruises, but serious injury. If you are half the fighter you claim, and I doudt very seriously that you are, then you would know injuries and address them.

    Yeah, what kind of pro fighting were you supposedly doing in 89. Where is your name recorded? There WILL be record of it somewhere. So lets see it. Try not to avoid it with another little tirade like this last one or will you run from me by putting me on ignore too, really dont matter, because you have already proven my point thus far, ignoring it will just reinforce the fact I have presented that you are a blowhard and little more, who bitches about things but provides few clear details to solutions.

    Asswipe, I have been asking for further details of your comments, you are the ****-for-brains that went off on some stupid tangent rather than just answering the questions.

    What is vague, idiot, is the solution for the problem that you present. You offer the problem but no viable solutions thus far.

    As for what I am satisfied with, or dissatisfied with, is that you continue to avoid providing a solution. I still await a solution from you. Now, go take your Geritol, some Prozac, and come back and post a solution. You make a point that there is a problem in training methodology, I'd love to see your solution if one exists.

    J
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:41pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is interesting:
    "The comment about opening cuts as a strategy fairly highlights my point. It's something I would train for if I were planning for MMA/boxing matches. It's not something that I would be as concerned about if self-defense was an issue."

    Do you know WHY they stop fights for cuts? I'll give you a hint, they did it before Majic Johnson quit basketball.
  9. SifuAbel is offline
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    Hole in one.

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    " I'll show up loaded for bear, get my drift? '

    Guns?
    Give to Haiti relief. text "haiti' to 90999
    http://www.youtube.com/user/TeacherMonkey?feature=mhee
  10. Jason74 is offline

    Professional Fighter

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 4:48pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuDoesWork
    " I'll show up loaded for bear, get my drift? '

    Guns?
    That would constitute a threat and be illegal...
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