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  1. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 4:29am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    Just like there is no point shadow boxing....?

    Using light weights develop your triceps but not for strength, for repetitive movement.
    If you do Wing Chun, you will need to practice that bench press movement since you will be repeatedly mounted. Make sure to extend arms fully when applying.
  2. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 6:09am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    If you do Wing Chun, you will need to practice that bench press movement since you will be repeatedly mounted. Make sure to extend arms fully when applying.
    Actually we practice BJJ as well as wing chun at Kamon, and our Sifu is a brown belt in Garcie Barra.

    It can be very very hard to take someone to the ground if they don't want you to.
  3. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 10:23am

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    Just like there is no point shadow boxing....?

    Using light weights develop your triceps but not for strength, for repetitive movement.

    Shadow boxing = form work.

    You need proper form to lift weights, but once that's mastered then there's no point in lifting small. You don't gain strength at less than 80% of max. :icon_geek
  4. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 2:22pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, you make gains at near muscle failure. Heavy weights can force you to fail quicker, but doing lighter weights at high reps will also eventually cause failure. As long as you keep pushing it.

    Look at pushups as an example. You're doing less than your body weight, at reps of 15+ for even the most out of shape couch potatoes. Do them every day, and within a month, the potato can do 30-40+. This is because they make you stronger.

    You may not gain as much bulk, but you will have more strength, and your muscular endurance will be greatly increased, which is actually more useful in a fight or a match.
    Last edited by Ryno; 11/30/2005 2:25pm at .
  5. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 2:27pm

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     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrong. This is because your muscle endurance increases. Can someone who does 100 pushups bench press more than someone who does 40, assuming equal body weight? Nope.

    It's all down to endurance once you get into the bigger numbers.
  6. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 4:26pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You will gain strength. From my personal experience, I did a test, just doing as many reps as possible at 135, then every few weeks to once a month checked my 1 rep max.

    Initially I was doing sets of about 6 reps @ 135. 1 rep max @ 170.

    A month or so later, 10 reps @ 135. 1 rep max @ 200.

    Then 15+ reps @ 135. 1 rep max 220.

    It seems like I was making gains in strength, as was evidence of the respectable increases in my one rep max weight. My muscular endurance was vastly improved. Now if you all have another explanation, then by all means let me know what the hell was going on here. Personally, I'm happy with the results, as I am stronger and don't tire as easily. I'm not interested in bulk, as I'm actually trying to drop weight.

    I understand that eventually it just becomes an endurance issue. But, is the guy who can only do one pushup stronger than the guy who can do 20? No.

    With regards to my lifting routine, I've raised my base weight now for whenever I do high reps, and now vary my routine, but the high rep test did prove something to me. It can be effective and increase strength. I also didn't seem to have as many nagging joint injuries as I used to when in high school doing heavy weight, low reps. Got to be good and warmed up for that.
    Last edited by Ryno; 11/30/2005 8:43pm at .
  7. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 6:38pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh my.....

    This is like....a first?

    Somebody takes a non-prejudiced, empirical approach to training and doesn't just parrot the party line ad nauseum?

    I appreciate the balls that takes. While the rest of you bigoted, no-nothings are up nights worrying about maintaining your SUPER POWER SPEED FAST-TWITCH TYPE-I MUSCLE FIBER DESTRUCTION STRENGTH....Ryno took a chance and discovered the relative non-distinction between endurance, strength, and the respective "strengths"...when we're talking about the absence of sport related skills, and outside forces.
  8. AthleticGirl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 8:25pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Girl

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    It can be very very hard to take someone to the ground if they don't want you to.
    1992 called, they want their grappling method back.
  9. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 8:51pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KeinHaar
    Oh my... Somebody takes a non-prejudiced, empirical approach to training and doesn't just parrot the party line ad nauseum?
    Yeah, I had a buddy in college that swore by the low weight high rep philosophy. At the time, I thought he was nuts. Now, ten years later when I decided to get back in shape, I actually remembered what he had said and figured I'd try it. I was getting really fatigued in grappling, and people kept sweeping me off mount because I was too damn tired to post well. So I figured the high reps would at least help me in that regard.

    Then when I started checking my 1 rep max as a benchmark just out of curiosity, I was quite surprised. I was making nice strength gains, and it definitely helped with my endurance. Old Murphy definitely had something figured out all along. I just wish I hadn't been such a hardhead about it and had gave the program a shot earlier.

    I think I was just biased because I looked bigger and more muscular than the guy. Murphy was about 5'10 160, where I was 6'2 205. I later found out he could outbench me by about 70 pounds from a mutual friend. Sheesh.
    Last edited by Ryno; 11/30/2005 8:59pm at .
  10. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2005 10:21pm

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     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ****.. this thread has just gone to stupidity...

    1. Want to develop speed? Improve strength and technique.

    2. Lifting weight that's light serves no purpose. Developing a synapse for repetitive movements with MA is best done without attached weight as you more than likely won't be fighting someone else with weights in your hands. Comparing this to Shadow Boxing is completely off. Visualization of technique used against an opponent serves as a proven learning aid.


    3. It's more like 60% of the 1rm. This is still a generalization as a lot more goes into it then just saying lifting this much will do "x" for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno
    Actually, you make gains at near muscle failure. Heavy weights can force you to fail quicker, but doing lighter weights at high reps will also eventually cause failure. As long as you keep pushing it.
    No, and definitely not. Specific stimuli will cause physiological and neurological changes, not just going to near failure. And saying doing light weight until you fail will cause you get stronger is completely off. You're taking some sticks and trying to build Sears Tower with them. You're missing a great deal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno
    Look at pushups as an example. You're doing less than your body weight, at reps of 15+ for even the most out of shape couch potatoes. Do them every day, and within a month, the potato can do 30-40+. This is because they make you stronger.
    Yes, but then you run into diminishing gains. If one can do more than 15 of anything, then weight needs to be increased. Progressive resistance. And never do any exercise every day.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno
    You may not gain as much bulk, but you will have more strength, and your muscular endurance will be greatly increased, which is actually more useful in a fight or a match.
    Actually working with a high number of repetitions will increase Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy, IE put on size. And no, you will not have more strength than an individual who is training with heavy weight on a progressive program. Why is muscular endurance more useful in a match? Why not end the fight faster? Chuck Lidell trains to make every shot a power shot and well, it works damned well for him, eh?

    Also, muscular endurance is an important facet of muscular strength.
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