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  1. Shillelagh is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 12:52pm


     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by roly
    i've already skimmed over judoinfo, not in great detail.(i will later tonight) but all i could find was a picture of the scissor throw, and a picture of a pickup/slam. i am looking for something that goes into detail
    http://judoinfo.com/kubiwaza.htm

    (Neck-cranks)
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 7:15pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Bujinkan has these types of "illegal" throws. Often the tech is the same as in judo, but the skin will be grabbed instead of the gi, or the opponent will land on his head instead of his back. Osoto Gari with a hair or face grab. You could throw and land with the knee on the opponent. Sometimes the arm will be in a lock or barred out during the throw (legal in judo?) but this is hard to do on a non-compliant uke. If you are interested look at some of the BBT throws or old-style jujitsu.
  3. JohnnyFive is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 7:31pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    I don't know the actual statistics, but I have to believe that for a competitive judoka, the injury rate would have to be higher than 24%. I've never known any high level players who did not suffer a significant injury at some point in their careers.

    I'm sure soccer has a higher rate of knee injuries, although judo has its fair share, but judo has all of the other injuries that are less likely in soccer. Shoulder, back & neck, elbow, wrist, in that order. And that's only the significant injuries, that doesn't even count all the minor stuff that we always have to contend with.
    Well, I looked for where I read the injury rates, and I'm digging around for more information (The original data that I read had soccer at 24% injuries, and judo at 10%. Then again, it was a judo based discussion):

    (http://judoinfo.com/research4.htm)
    Retrospective researches comprised 66% of people training judo in 22 chosen cities in Poland. There were 6468 subjects of varied age. On the basis of the data obtained from the Polish National Insurance (PZU) in four years (1977-1980) about 547 accidents and 563 injuries took place.

    On the other hand:

    http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte.../311/7018/1465

    Table 1--Person years of exposure, numbers of injuries,
    and injury rate in six sports in Finland (sports insurance
    data 1987-91)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Injury rate
    Person years No of (95% confidence
    Sport of exposure injuries interval)+
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Soccer 296646 26330 89 (88 to 90)
    Ice hockey 179798 16836 94 (92 to 95)
    Volleyball 87668 5235 60 (58 to 61)
    Basketball 39541 3472 88 (85 to 91)
    Judo 9936 1163 117 (111 to 123)
    Karate 8102 1150 142 (134 to 150)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    +Injuries per 1000 person years of exposure.


    At least we're still more badass than hockey players!
  4. dakotajudo is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 8:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by roly
    i have found an old book written by "kawaishi" but it is in french. it seems to have been written before a lot of the rule changes, so it shows a few things that arent legal anymore. judo really was a nasty business back then...
    A lot of it wasn't legal, back then. Kawaishi kinda had a difference of opinion, with the Kodokan, about what judo should be.

    I dunno - a lot of people, who want to practice the "real" judo, go to Kawaishi. I see it as he had his own ideas and taught them, much like Mifune.

    As for the general question, it's easier to realize that there are the formal Kodokan techniques - gokyo and kata - and there are techniques that a lot of judoka learn, informally (i.e. kuden or just fartin' around in practice).

    Keep separate from that, things that you can legally do in competition - that is, actions (not techniques) that are not prohibited by the rules. In some cases, the ruled disallow specific techniques, but in general it's actions that are not allowed. A lot of techniques from other styles (wrestling) can be performed as a scoring technique in judo, or, at least, not penalized.

    So there are legal ways to perform techniques, and ways that are not legal. Some a just a quirk of the judo rules (grabbing the pant leg), some are for safety.

    So you might want to ask - exactly what are you asking for?

    A list of techniques not part of the formal judo syllabus, such as in Kawaishi, that include actions that would be prohibited in shiai? That's a pretty long list.

    A list of techniques that are part of the formal judo syllabus, that are specifically prohibited? That's pretty short - you can probably get the rules for the IJF website, I've got a copy but I'm too lazy to track down the link.

    Prohibited actions; those that result in an otherwise valid technique being disallowed? That might be worth studying - for the sake of your training partners, and for perhaps those times when you really do need to hurt someone.

    Kinda hard to do, 'cause you gotta hurt people to really find out. But if you watch enough matches, you can start to see ways good techniques go bad.

    Then there are the techniques that are illegal only if the ref sees them - and there are some things you can do that the ref won't see.
  5. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2005 2:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread gives me an idea for a book:

    "Judo for t3h str33t!"
  6. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 2:40pm


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dakotajudo
    A lot of it wasn't legal, back then. Kawaishi kinda had a difference of opinion, with the Kodokan, about what judo should be.

    I dunno - a lot of people, who want to practice the "real" judo, go to Kawaishi. I see it as he had his own ideas and taught them, much like Mifune.
    E. J Harrison, who translated most of Kawaishi's work, explains in the forward to MY METHOD OF JUDO that as the Kodokan became more sport oriented, and started banning techniques such as leg locks, Kawaishi kept them in. As Kawaishi was in France, and had quite a large following in Europe at the time, the "old style" European judo became referred to as Kawaishi judo.

    Hmm judo books that show the tactics the Kodokan has banned? Most of the Kawaishi books, E J Harrison's translation of the Oda method on the ground, Charles Yerkow's Modern Jiu jitsu book, will give you a good start. There's lots more, but my library is at home.
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 3:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdnronin
    E. J Harrison, who translated most of Kawaishi's work, explains in the forward to MY METHOD OF JUDO that as the Kodokan became more sport oriented, and started banning techniques such as leg locks, Kawaishi kept them in. As Kawaishi was in France, and had quite a large following in Europe at the time, the "old style" European judo became referred to as Kawaishi judo.

    Hmm judo books that show the tactics the Kodokan has banned? Most of the Kawaishi books, E J Harrison's translation of the Oda method on the ground, Charles Yerkow's Modern Jiu jitsu book, will give you a good start. There's lots more, but my library is at home.

    Are the book(s) worth getting ?
  8. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 3:41pm


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    Are the book(s) worth getting ?
    I think all of Kawaishi's books are worth getting. My little library is probably 300-400 odd books on judo-jiu jitsu, ranging from 1899 to present day, I probably refer to the kawaishi books and Kudo's dynamic Judo more than any others.
  9. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 3:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cdnronin
    I think all of Kawaishi's books are worth getting. My little library is probably 300-400 odd books on judo-jiu jitsu, ranging from 1899 to present day, I probably refer to the kawaishi books and Kudo's dynamic Judo more than any others.
    I've been wanting to get my hands on Dynamic Grappling, but just a tad too expensive for me...
  10. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 3:52pm


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    I've been wanting to get my hands on Dynamic Grappling, but just a tad too expensive for me...
    Welcome to the club. I've sold books for $500.00 US, could never bring myself to pay that kind of price.
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