The Bullshidofication of Brazillian Jiujitsu

[EnaeS]

sorta off topic question but what MAs have survived a mcdojoism. what allowed them to survive it, was sactioning bodies, was it the way they train or they happen to not be as popular and it just wasn't worth the money to go down that route. this is more out of curiosty than anything else.

[Ronin]

Every MA has some sort of Busllshido and/or McDojoisim, its just a fact of life.
Its how this bullshido/Mcdojoisim is accepted by the practioners of said art, that is called into question.

[EnaeS]

i understand that every art has McDojoism but why is the level so much worse in things like Ninjitsu, TKD, Wing Chun and TMAs and not in ones like Judo and Boxing and what about these arts causes this.
I have nothing to backup the level of McDojoism i stated above i am just goin off of what i have read in threads, i see alot of bullshido threads dealing with the Ninjitsu, TKD, Wing Chun and TMAs than with Judo, Boxing, Bjj. This is the only thread dealing with McDojoism in the latter that i have personally come across

[Ronin]

Because Boxing, Judo and the vast majority of combat arts are easy to "test", Bullshido is harder to fine, also, judo for example belongs to a regulated organisation.
Boxing, is so very simple that its pretty hard to build it up to be something its not.
But even they can become over commercialised - McDojofied.

But as long as the CONTENT and QUALITY remain the same/constant, very few people will bitch and complain about the instrcutor/owners making some coin.

[lawdog]

Because Boxing, Judo and the vast majority of combat arts are easy to "test", Bullshido is harder to fine, also, judo for example belongs to a regulated organisation.
Boxing, is so very simple that its pretty hard to build it up to be something its not.
But even they can become over commercialised - McDojofied.

But as long as the CONTENT and QUALITY remain the same/constant, very few people will bitch and complain about the instrcutor/owners making some coin.

.....I'd also add that in MA like wrestling, boxing and judo, the practitioners are usually competitive athletes. Most people who train seriously in any of those 3 styles are doing so primarily to compete in a sport, not to learn to defend themeselves in the street. I think the mindset of the practitioner is another factor that makes it difficult to slip in much bullshido.

[roly]

.....I'd also add that in MA like wrestling, boxing and judo, the practitioners are usually competitive athletes. Most people who train seriously in any of those 3 styles are doing so primarily to compete in a sport, not to learn to defend themeselves in the street. I think the mindset of the practitioner is another factor that makes it difficult to slip in much bullshido.

the thing is that bjj falls under the same category as judo/boxing/wrestling etc and from the looks of things, its going to turn bullshido as well

no art is safe anymore

[IzzyDaHedgehog]

the thing is that bjj falls under the same category as judo/boxing/wrestling etc and from the looks of things, its going to turn bullshido as well

no art is safe anymore

Except no judoka/boxer/wrestler took a bunch of unprepared pointfighters to school in a popular MMA tournament. Some did, but none became as well known as Royce did.

[xero]

Whats your experience Xero?

Trained under Dave Camarillo almost 2 years now. Before that about 12 years of wrestling.

[Lefty]

Oooh ooh dare I say it?

"Do you have teh R33L BJJ?"

Seriously though. I read some recent interviews with Helio and he said he's pretty disgusted with the way BJJ is headed. Now I understand what he meant.

I think this kind of thing will make BJJ people feel a lot like legitimate KF peeps have been feeling for some time.

[NSLightsOut]

I think that Helio's disgust primarily comes from the devaluation of rank, and certain individuals handing out belts that may be questioned by instructors with tougher criteria for belt levels.

Whilst travelling, I've seen this difference first hand. Several people I encountered, whilst wearing a belt higher than my lowly blue :) were not all that much more skilled than myself, or weren't as technical as people at an equivalent rank at my school are required to be.

Unfortunately, I think this may be a side effect of the popularity of the art.

This phenomenon does not seem to be only confined to my experience, either. I've been training for nearly four years to date. I have some degree of competitive success, and I'd consider myself, at this point, one of the more experienced blues in my academy, an opinion that seems to be shared by my training partners and instructor.

Look at belt/time threads on Sherdog, MMA.TV, JJgear and other boards, and there are a number of posters claiming to be wearing purples inside three years, and blues inside 6 months/1 year. Now, I know two people who have received purple belts after three years of practice. One won the Absolute Blue division at the Mundials, the other is a machine with the triangle and guard of doom.

Phenoms are fairly rare. Having experienced the quality to be found outside of my own little sandbox and read about it, I sincerely doubt that the conflict between what I read on message boards and what I find in person is isolated in nature.

Honestly, lets face it: The standards of the art are, at this point in time, wholly dependant on the higher ranks to administer it. And there are a lot of them. BJJ.org doesn't even begin to cover the sheer number of black belts in the world, as it is dependant upon registration. Just look at the discrepancy in numbers between the black belts listed on graciebarra.com.br and those listed on bjj.org under Carlos Gracie Jr for illustration of this fact.

As there are a great number of them, there most likely will be distinctly differing views upon the skill level that constitute a certain rank. Those instructors with lower standards will produce black belts in a shorter period of time, some of whom may go on to teach others, and so on and so forth.

The result of such lower standards will inevitably be a growth of lower standards, thus resulting in a similar situation to the Bullshido that permeates TMAs.

I have been told that the CBJJ has been trying to rectify this by ensuring that competition is a requirement for higher rank. However, their promotions page has not been translated into English, and my Portugues is rusty from lack of use, and of dubious value in accurate translation anyway. As BJJ skill qualification for rank is a hard thing to quantify, I believe that this requirement would have a positive effect on creating more or less homogenous standards of rank.