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  1. BudoBuyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:02am


     Style: BBT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by onetimebullet
    i watched the video...good video.
    i searched this forum, the tabmoc site and the internet about this stuff.
    i wasnt trying to "troll" or get a rise from any of you.

    im glad to see that you are so easily taken to trying to be mean. i see now that i can not even ask a question on here without looking my post over 10 times to make sure everything is perfect.

    im not trying to start anything here, i think it was taken the wrong way.

    also, i didnt say they were fake or anything like that. i was just asking everyones opinion.

    video is awesome and i like what i see.

    just trying to talk to people who are more educated about this stuff and who have different views...

    and whats wrong with just fighting in the streets. its not like i have any other style to put down.

    :blob5: YAY!
    Well, sorry if I came off harsh. It's just that when people post things in the Bullshido section they're either accusing the place of being bullshido (bullshit) or asking others if they've had any past experience with that style or dojo/jang to see if it's bullshido. So, naturally when you posted it everyone thinks your crying bullshido on what appears (as far as we can tell) to be a bullshido free place. It even goes so far to say that aliveness and hard training are the only way to get better at the art.

    So, accept my apology for initially bashing you. I wouldn't worry about what you type, just where you type it. Don't put a Gracie BJJ school in Bullshido because you don't know much about it. To everyone else it seems like you're calling Bullshido. Do some research on it first and if you can't come to your own conclusion then seek the help of others.

    Anyway, Welcome to Bullshido and hope you eventually choose a style to take. Good luck.
  2. onetimebullet is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:07am


     Style: natures punching bag

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    cool man

    thanks bro... i appreciate it. i like this place.

    i wil get back to you all
  3. BudoBuyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:14am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See, there are nice people at Bullshido! Just beware of the more..."twitchy" users here and you'll be fine. Hell, even if you treat them with respect you'll notice they'll reciprocate it back.

    Just don't call em' pussies. :user:
  4. Jaric is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:29am


     Style: Maybe Kyokushin soon...

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The video they have about aliveness is the greatest martial art video I have ever seen. I could only wish for a world where every 'master' in every dojo saw and understood that video. I want to show it to my kwoon, but I think they may kick me out if I do...
  5. BudoBuyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:43am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaric
    The video they have about aliveness is the greatest martial art video I have ever seen. I could only wish for a world where every 'master' in every dojo saw and understood that video. I want to show it to my kwoon, but I think they may kick me out if I do...

    I may show it to my instructor just to see what he says. We practice aliveness, but not 100% of the time. You can never learn the techniques or feel your way through them if you're going 100% all the time with a totally non cooperative uke.

    The only problem with his Chess analogy is that it only takes about 5 minutes to learn all the moves. It takes years to learn the basics of a martial art to the point where you can use them effectively. At least TMAs. I'm not sure how MMA is. We do practice aliveness, but we're really encouraged to do that outside the dojo during "dirt time". We have limited time in the dojo and it'd be a waste if everyone was just going apeshit crazy without learning any technique first. So there's a time and place for everything.
  6. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 2:19am

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought I was being nice ... * shrugs *
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  7. Rah is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 6:50am


     Style: jjj, mma, bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by BudoBuyu
    The only problem with his Chess analogy is that it only takes about 5 minutes to learn all the moves. It takes years to learn the basics of a martial art to the point where you can use them effectively.
    There is alot more to chess than simply knowing the moves. It can take years to develop any real proficiency in tactical play, defenses, offenses and so on....
    Just because one "knows" how to play doesn't mean they KNOW how to play. Same is totally true for MA.

    And onetimebullet, perhaps people got the wrong impression of the thread as i did because you used the STUPID message icon in the thread title.
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 9:23am

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BudoBuyu
    I may show it to my instructor just to see what he says. We practice aliveness, but not 100% of the time. You can never learn the techniques or feel your way through them if you're going 100% all the time with a totally non cooperative uke.

    The only problem with his Chess analogy is that it only takes about 5 minutes to learn all the moves. It takes years to learn the basics of a martial art to the point where you can use them effectively. At least TMAs. I'm not sure how MMA is. We do practice aliveness, but we're really encouraged to do that outside the dojo during "dirt time". We have limited time in the dojo and it'd be a waste if everyone was just going apeshit crazy without learning any technique first. So there's a time and place for everything.
    This is the #1 TMA fallacy. You only heard what you wanted to in that clip. At no point does he say you should be "going apeshit crazy without learning any technique first" That is NOT aliveness that is being an idiot. The key to alive training is progressive resistance. Obviously you can't just start rolling wiht no technique but you can learn techniques with progressive resistance. The goal is to minimize no resistance dead training as much as possible.

    Example: You want to learn an armbar.
    1) Armbar demonstration
    2) pair up and armbar each other with no resistance on both sides.
    3) begin rolling with light resistance and the only allowed attack is an armbar.
    4) after you have each gotten it with light resistance step it up and roll for armbars with medium resistance.
    5) etc.
    6) repeat with a good reversal
    7) Free roll useing only those 2 techniques as alowed subs
  9. BudoBuyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 1:47pm


     Style: BBT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    This is the #1 TMA fallacy. You only heard what you wanted to in that clip. At no point does he say you should be "going apeshit crazy without learning any technique first" That is NOT aliveness that is being an idiot. The key to alive training is progressive resistance. Obviously you can't just start rolling wiht no technique but you can learn techniques with progressive resistance. The goal is to minimize no resistance dead training as much as possible.

    Example: You want to learn an armbar.
    1) Armbar demonstration
    2) pair up and armbar each other with no resistance on both sides.
    3) begin rolling with light resistance and the only allowed attack is an armbar.
    4) after you have each gotten it with light resistance step it up and roll for armbars with medium resistance.
    5) etc.
    6) repeat with a good reversal
    7) Free roll useing only those 2 techniques as alowed subs

    No, no, you're right. I should have been clearer with that post. I was trying to refer to that Wing Chun move he was demonstrating. Those two guys were obviously untrained at Wing Chun. They knew how to do the technique but they didn't know how to apply it. So, when the attacker put resistance into it his partner didn't know what to do in that situation.

    We use the same "gradual" aliveness in my class. Almost like you described it in your list. Start off with the technique itself and in 30 minutes there are guys doing henka after henka due to their uke giving resistance. This is how training should be.

    As great as his video was, I think some other people "saw what they wanted to" as well. If you really watch it from an objective standpoint his analogies are lacking. I'm not saying his ideals are wrong; everyone needs to practice with aliveness to be any good at fighting.

    Let's take his Chess example for instance. He demonstrated the same 4 moves over and over as his partner did as well. This is nothing like TMA. First we learn the move. Punch goes here, counter goes there. This is the same for Chess: Knight goes here, Pawn goes here. Then, when everyone can move their Knight without having to count the squares, you can practice actually playing for real.

    Anyone who's ever played someone who just started Chess knows that it's a pain in the ass to watch people make stupid mistakes. People moving Pawns to far up, moving Knights wrong, etc. It takes some coaching through the moves first. This is just like TMA. You can't expect to play anyone for real until you're comfortable with ever aspect of the rules and movement. It's also the same for BJJ. You can't just expect to jump in with some guy and do an armbar when he's resisting when you've just learned it. You have to build up to it gradually. I didn't think he explained that in the video.

    In conclusion. I'm sure if he had someone who's taken Wing Chun and applied it to combat and had him do that same technique with someone who knows nothing about Wing Chun but that technique and had him do the same "resisting" move it would have turned out alot differently.

    So don't get me wrong. I agree 100% with what he's saying. Aliveness is the key to being a good fighter, and yes we are an alive class. I just don't agree with his examples.
    Last edited by BudoBuyu; 11/17/2005 1:55pm at .
  10. WhiteShark is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2005 2:01pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you talking about the very first WC thing in the video? Because his whole point is that that kind of fighting doesn't really work or at least it doesn' look like that in practice. I know he's right because I've seen Awesome WC guys do the same drill in practice and in live sparring.

    Seriously I want to understand what you are saying because your first post still worries me. it sounds like your teacher doesn't appreciate the value of free sparring.
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