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  1. ac_dropout is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    51

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 3:23pm


     Style: TKD, Long Fist, Praying M

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it is just a drill to learn basic moves, I don't see the point in going full force against your training partners. Or asking the training partner hit you with full force. The point of these drills are to perfect the mechanics and develop muscle memory for the technique.

    If it is contact training to learn how to take a hit, then I'm okay with full force. But you cannot blame your training partner if they cannot generate the force you wished to be applied.

    Students are there to learn, not to show off.
  2. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    3,008

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 3:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Conditioning is supposed to be a big part of Enshin. Not just shin and hand condtioning for strikes but also conditioning your body to take shots. The exercise we were doing the instructor explicitly said "this is for conditioning, if you want for partner to touch you, tell him".
  3. warnerj5000 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    357

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 3:53pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ac_dropout
    If it is contact training to learn how to take a hit, then I'm okay with full force. But you cannot blame your training partner if they cannot generate the force you wished to be applied.

    Students are there to learn, not to show off.
    You're not trying to knock each other out or injure each other, but it has to be realistic enough that you're not wasting each other's time either.

    Even going light, it should still be uncomfortable if you take a direct hit, and pretty much anyone above the age of infancy should be able to generate that much power.
  4. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Seattle (Ballard), WA
    Posts
    1,776

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 4:16pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I hear what you are saying AC, but take this as an example. When doing stickfighting, we often work attack and defend drills. The problem is that if the feeder/attacker doesn't actually swing at the defender, but instead swings at the air two feet in front of the defender, how can the defender practice their blocks?

    If they defend against this meaningless attack, they will have to overreach their blocks, which is a horrible habit to have to break. It is as bad as grabbing someone and locking your elbows in grappling. You need to learn to defend yourself against an attack that is actually coming at you. It doesn't need to be viciously hard. But it should have some intent and focus behind it. Otherwise you get overconfident and your timing gets screwed up defending against hits that won't land, that have no intent, and are coming at such a ridiculously slow rate of speed.

    Even if I am feeding a raw beginner, I may move pretty slowly, but will really give them shots that are focused and have the feeling of intent behind them. They will understand that they are training to block strikes that would actually hit them, and not hits that are randomly waved around somewhere in front of them.
    Last edited by Ryno; 11/10/2005 4:19pm at .
  5. Apostol is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
    Posts
    703

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 4:42pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lots of times people just don't want to hit you hard because they don't want to give the impression that they think they're a hardass, or a tough guy. So in other words, people become too humble. If I'm not familiar with a partner, I throw an attack with accuracy and the intention of making contact, but very light. Once I can judge their level of comfort, I adjust from there. No need to beat the crap out of someone when they're not ready for that.

    One time I was doing this drill with a newbie where one person attacks and the other defends and clinches. I was going light on him because he was a beginner. When it was his turn to attack, he went ape on me. So often times, beginners don't know the proper intensity level, save the full contact for sparring.
  6. ac_dropout is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    51

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 5:16pm


     Style: TKD, Long Fist, Praying M

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand that nobody enjoys practicing or sparring with beginners, because they get more out of it than you do.

    But if we have the attitude of "let's not train with the beginner," then who are we left to train with?

    When I was younger I would go full contact with everyone and anyone in the school. Girl or boy, it didn't matter. If you put on a hogu and a helmet, I would spin kick you in the head if you gave me the opportunity. Soon there was only the 2 students that wanted to spar with me.

    Gets pretty boring sparring only 2 people after a while.

    Then I learned that there more it than just full contact. Take the time to learn differences in reach and size. How to bait people, how to control people without touching them, etc.
  7. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Jul 2004
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    Queens, NY
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 5:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to clarify, we're both beginners, we both tested for blue belt at the same time.

    And thanks for the advice
    Last edited by ojgsxr6; 11/10/2005 5:33pm at .
  8. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ?????????
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    2,736

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 5:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ojgsxr6 ,your buddy sounds like someone who might be leaving very soon.You seem to be the type who will hand in there longer then most.Congratulations,you're in the 15% group that stays in Full-contact Karate until he reaches a high rank.Whether its your knees that will probably give out like me or some other injury.

    Sometimes I have the same problem .I'm either sparring someone who's weaker then me or a complete dickhead.All I can recommend to you is hang in there for a while because the'll be others in the future you can spar who will be at a your level or higher.
  9. Odacon is offline
    Odacon's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    May 2005
    Location
    Dublin
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 6:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If someone goes light against me, I take advantage. If that doesn't annoy them into hitting harder, then they are probably are just not interested in that type of sparring.
    Last edited by Odacon; 11/10/2005 6:31pm at .
  10. tabris is offline

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    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    100

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 10:06pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly, sometimes people just feel bad hitting you hard. What you want to do is prep them to hit hard. When practicing on thai pads or focus mitts, tell them to put all their power into it. If the intensity level changes from hardass to wimp when sparring or practicing without mitts and pads, the problem might be him not adjusting realistically. If that is the case, just pop him really hard in the gut one time and tell him this is how hard I want you to hit me. If he takes the hint good. If he doesn't, you got yourself a punching dummy. I have seen a few students quit from being kicked hard in the head. Not a fun sight.

    I usually gauge how hard people want to hit by dropping my guard and having them attack first if I am sparring a beginner. If we are the same level or they are tougher, I simply attack at the pace I want to attack and they usually follow. I always thought that was the common etiquette but I guessed wrong...
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