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  1. DubhGhaill is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:29pm


     Style: MMA/JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JFS USA has terrible manners.
  2. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
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    **** you math class

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:32pm

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     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DubhGhaill
    JFS USA has terrible manners.
    You're a *****.
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:34pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    Some martial artists choose to prioritize culture, customs and history over street effectiveness, partly for the same reason that some people collect and restore antiques such as phonographs and Model Ts. It does not follow that these people are Bullshidoka.
    Those pple are WRONG. :happy8: There I said it. :karated:
    When it comes to MARTIAL arts combat effectiveness is first on priorities. The pple who focus on culture, customs, and history first are generally the ones make excuses. The pple who restore phonographs and Model Ts (or antique weapons like I to form time to time) are not doing it to compete with their modern equvialent.

    We both agree that the phonograph is inferior in terms of effectiveness, although I will point out that a phonograph is much more effective at playing the music that is was designed to play, which was recorded on disks and rolls that are obviously incompatible with IPods. Not to stretch that analogy too far, but I'm simply pointing out that antiques have an intrinsic value that has little or nothing to do with how well they compare to the latest, cutting edge technology.
    But by you logic the phonograph is inferior to the Ipod in playing digital music. But still what they are designed to do is play music and Ipods do a better job in amount and sound quality than the phonograph. Antiques are much like religion. They only have as much value as one wishes to place on it.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:34pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, well, this is the Bullshido forum ... I have no real problem with someone trying to insult me over the Internet, and if JFS USA wants to retire from this discussion, that's his choice and I'll respect it.
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:52pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EVIL ASIA
    Those pple are WRONG. :happy8: There I said it. :karated:
    When it comes to MARTIAL arts combat effectiveness is first on priorities. The pple who focus on culture, customs, and history first are generally the ones make excuses. The pple who restore phonographs and Model Ts (or antique weapons like I to form time to time) are not doing it to compete with their modern equvialent.
    I agree, and that's point; if there's no competition, why should there be a hierarchy based solely on the value of effectiveness? I cited the example of classical kenjutsu earlier, but much the same could be said of a whole range of TMAs which can be (and often are) pursued as expressions of culture first and foremost; they have the same historical and anthropological value as any other antique.

    Restoring antique weapons is a fine hobby, and I doubt that anyone who takes that hobby seriously considers themselves to be in competition with the manufacturers of the latest st33t d3adly self defense gadget.

    The Bullshido, as we've both agreed, comes in where an unwarranted claim is made.

    Quote Originally Posted by EVIL ASIA
    But by you logic the phonograph is inferior to the Ipod in playing digital music. But still what they are designed to do is play music and Ipods do a better job in amount and sound quality than the phonograph. Antiques are much like religion. They only have as much value as one wishes to place on it.
    Yes, although in the modern market an Edison phonograph is going to fetch a much higher price than an IPod, precisely because, like many TMA, it's rare, a 'classic", an artifact of another era.
  6. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:56pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MEGA JESUS-SAN
    It was a poor choice of words, but the point was that his analogy was inaccurate because Model Ts, in this case, aren't the same as a martial art. While a Model T is worth keeping around because it's historically significant, martial arts are different and shouldn't be allowed to stagnate because they're old.
    Thanks for the clarification ... makes perfect sense. Agreed, now that I read it in the proper context.
  7. JFS USA is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 9:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DubhGhaill
    JFS USA has terrible manners.
    Really? Bummer ... my bust ... Go **** your Mommy you shitrat!!

    There, was that better? :icon_sunn
  8. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 9:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I agree, and that's point; if there's no competition, why should there be a hierarchy based solely on the value of effectiveness? I cited the example of classical kenjutsu earlier, but much the same could be said of a whole range of TMAs which can be (and often are) pursued as expressions of culture first and foremost; they have the same historical and anthropological value as any other antique.
    I would agree more except the pple who pursue classical arts for cultur are still claiming to be as effective as those who put the martial part first and they are often not. And the media isn't helping. (I finally watched that godawful CSI:NY episode with the Corporate MArtist :XXpuke: )

    Restoring antique weapons is a fine hobby, and I doubt that anyone who takes that hobby seriously considers themselves to be in competition with the manufacturers of the latest st33t d3adly self defense gadget.
    Correct but again in the MA community you have pple who do consider they are in competiton with more modern ones. Hence you get pple coming up with the HIDDEN MOVES in thier Kata that went unnoticed until MMA came along. :new_let_i

    The Bullshido, as we've both agreed, comes in where an unwarranted claim is made.
    We are definitely on the same wavelenght on that.

    Yes, although in the modern market an Edison phonograph is going to fetch a much higher price than an IPod, precisely because, like many TMA, it's rare, a 'classic", an artifact of another era.
    True but the way Ipods and all the damn assesories are going they just might out do an Edison phonograph in price. :icon_eek:
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Kengou is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 9:35pm


     Style: TKD; BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It may well be that practitioners of some TMA make exaggerated or unproven claims about combat effectiveness, in which case, address those claims; but it does not follow that "TMA are Bullshido", nor that bowing, traditional weaponry, etc. are necessarily signs of Bullshido, which seemed to be what the original poster was saying.
    Sorry if that's what it seemed like to you, but it wasn't anywhere near my intention to say TMA are Bullshido, or that bows are a sign of bullshido. My TKD school includes bowing and I don't mind it personally. However, the bowing portion isn't included in the "martial arts" part of the training. It is something else, the cultural heritage or whatever you said. I don't call my BJJ teacher "Mestre" or whatever, and we don't bow, we just slap hands and get down to training. Same deal with traditional weaponry and language. It is superfluous to the "martial arts", and the article specifically criticized those TMA schools that were abandoning these things, in favor of a more casual atmosphere and focus on ACTUAL combat effectiveness instead of a 5,000,000-year old three-sectional trident-bo-chaku that no one would ever use anymore. That's where I saw bullshido, or at least some humor.
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 9:41pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MEGA JESUS-SAN
    It was a poor choice of words, but the point was that his analogy was inaccurate because Model Ts, in this case, aren't the same as a martial art. While a Model T is worth keeping around because it's historically significant, martial arts are different and shouldn't be allowed to stagnate because they're old.
    Actually, the Model T analogy was originally suggested by JFS USA; but regardless, why are legitimate TMAs any less historically or culturally significant than classic cars?

    Further, surely no-one is suggesting that all martial arts should remain as they have always been. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make much sense to call Bullshido on those martial artists who see greater value in preserving antique systems for their own sake than in training to win in the octagon or in a street fight. There's room for both perspectives and more besides.

    When a proponent of either view starts making unwarranted claims, then by all means put them to the Bullshido test.
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