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  1. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Sep 2004
    Location
    Philadelphia
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    881

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 1:23am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They should add one to that list:

    George Dillman isnt a complete tool.

    And as far as this one is concerned....
    "5: Traditional systems don't work (I was impressed, basically said it's the person, not the style, anyone can make an art work if they work hard to make it work)"

    That is and isnt true. Style goes a LONG way in determine how someone will fight, and forcing a clinch is much easier than preventing one. In the event that people are CROSS TRAINING then I agree with this statement that its the individual that matters. When referring to single martial arts, some are simply more effective than others
  2. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Apr 2005
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 2:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou

    A bullshido-ridden article about how Kung Fu schools are dispensing with traditional ways that are important, which include: Stances, Weaponry, Salutes/Bows, Terminology and Titles. The author argued that these things were important, and that getting rid of them is bad. I can see stances, but his arguments for everything else is just dumb. Bows are linked to asian culture, shouldn't be replaced by handshakes even though we live in the west... weapons teach lots of useful things like... nothing (he didn't have any real arguments for this one)... Terminology/titles have distinct levels of meaning in the original languages and show respect, and shouldn't be discarded... etc.
    There's plenty of room for schools teaching modern eclectic martial arts, reality-based self defense, MMA, etc., but to my mind, a TMA school that retains elements such as bowing, weapon forms, terminology in the original language, etc. is not automatically "Bullshido".

    Beyond questions of combat effectiveness, every legitimate TMA represents a unique heritage. Like fine antiques, they are "windows" into foreign cultures and into the past, and I could argue that this actually represents their greatest value.
  3. Kengou is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2005
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    MA, U.S.
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 7:54am


     Style: TKD; BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the list of "Upcoming Seminars", basically every one was a Dillman. So they managed to stick him in somewhere.

    DdlR: You make some good points, and if your goal of martial arts training is cultural heritage, then that's cool. I, however, am of the opinion that if you learn martial arts in order to fight, that stuff is superfluous and could eat up time and energy that could be spent learning/training. Weapons forms especially, but even bowing and chinese terminology too. You could spend time memorizing lots of chinese words and pronunciations and meanings, or you could be training. You could spend time (much less tiime, admittedly, but time nonetheless) bowing to instructor and partners, or you could be training.
  4. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Jul 2002
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    Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
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    10,587

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    There's plenty of room for schools teaching modern eclectic martial arts, reality-based self defense, MMA, etc., but to my mind, a TMA school that retains elements such as bowing, weapon forms, terminology in the original language, etc. is not automatically "Bullshido".

    Beyond questions of combat effectiveness, every legitimate TMA represents a unique heritage. Like fine antiques, they are "windows" into foreign cultures and into the past, and I could argue that this actually represents their greatest value.
    Historically styles didn't stick around unless they were adaptable AND effective. Once a style got outdated (and yest they can be outdated) then they either changed or died out. So the ONLY reason to stick to tradtion is really for Cultrual Preservation, which isn't a requirement for MA. Today we only have outdated systems and training methods sticking around becaues society has changed to allow pple to we Wannabe Warriors without having to deal with any of the aspects that go with claiming to be a MArtist. Even just 50 yrs ago if you said you studied MA pple wanted to see you be able to use it. Now they have a myraid of excuses to hide behind.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. liokault is offline

    Moron

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford UK
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    681

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:15am


     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kengou
    So the newest issue of Black Belt arrived today. .

    Tell me you stood and read it in the shop and I wont neg rep you!
  6. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2003
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    Canada
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    20,894

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 8:17am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ma are for fighters, not for people that read Magazines.
  7. broken fingers is offline
    broken fingers's Avatar

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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Arlington, Tx
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    1,213

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 1:01pm


     Style: mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    7: There are death matches (mentioned Count Dante and Bloodsport, pretty good)

    what?

    NO!

    I saw it on Best of the Best 3! or was it 2?

    its gotta be real!
  8. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Apr 2005
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    4,772

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 1:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EVIL ASIA
    Historically styles didn't stick around unless they were adaptable AND effective. Once a style got outdated (and yest they can be outdated) then they either changed or died out. So the ONLY reason to stick to tradtion is really for Cultrual Preservation, which isn't a requirement for MA. Today we only have outdated systems and training methods sticking around becaues society has changed to allow pple to we Wannabe Warriors without having to deal with any of the aspects that go with claiming to be a MArtist. Even just 50 yrs ago if you said you studied MA pple wanted to see you be able to use it. Now they have a myraid of excuses to hide behind.
    If combat effectiveness is literally the only criteria for judging the "value" of a martial art, then you're absolutely right; most TMA are redundant and may as well be put to sleep. On the other hand, by that logic most martial arts are equally redundant compared to any good modern handgun system, which is one reason why combat handgunners tend to look down on martial arts training in general.

    My point was that legitimate TMA represent microcosms of certain cultures and historical periods and that cultural preservation is valuable for its own sake. Let's say that you came across a mint-condition Edison phonograph in a yard sale. Knowing that an IPod is much more effective at producing music, would you just throw it away, or "modernize" it by adding microcircuits and painting it red? That would destroy its actual value as an antique.
  9. Kengou is offline

    Registered Member

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    MA, U.S.
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 3:28pm


     Style: TKD; BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Liokault - My grandmother got me a subscription, I'm just waiting for it to run out. It's still good for some laughs every month.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 3:42pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only thing close to real death matchs I have ever heard of on an organized and ongoing level was this:

    http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/corcoran.htm

    Although the guards in question were eventually aquitted, that is the closest I have heard to some real life deathmatchs.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
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