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  1. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    978

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 12:08pm


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    Open up your hips, twist, hips flip, leg whips.
    :color:
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  2. 5FingazofDeath is offline
    5FingazofDeath's Avatar

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    948

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 12:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Spin/pivot on the ball of your foot too. I was also taught to be on the balls of your foot for every knee or kick. Lower your weight so your supporting leg is bent, and pivot until your hips replace itself (left lead, to right lead for example).

    Oh and to be extra nasty, for a close roundkick, hit with the upper portion of the shin, just below the knee - that **** really hurts.
  3. Khun Kao is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    638

    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 8:41am


     Style: MuayThai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by j416to
    It sounds like you're making the mistake of trying to generating power with your forward momentum, like a soccer kick. That's probably why you're finding yourself wanting to step backward, to give yourself enough room to generate some forward momentum. You need to step forward, land flatfooted, pivot and rotate up onto the balls of your feet, 90 degrees from your initial foot placement. The foot pivot, up and around, is the key to opening up your hips.
    Sorry, I don't agree with some of this. I agree with what you say about stepping at the forwards angle (90-degrees, approximately), but you can step sideways, even backwards, when you kick and still generate power. When you step, you should not land flat-footed then raise up on the balls of your feet, that is two motions where you only need one. Step on the ball of your foot to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by j416to
    Some people will tell you to simply step out, to the side, but that's wrong. That's still the same forward momentum of a soccer kick, except that now you're planting your foot in a rotated position, and hoping that your hips will follow. That isn't quick enough, it doesn't allow you to throw a proper jab, and will leave you vulnerable to tearing an ACL. Do that and you'll never be able to land a proper jab-round house kick combination, because stepping out, to the side, negates the power in your jab.
    Well, coming back to my point above, you CAN step in almost any direction before you kick and still generate power. I understand what you're saying about not being in position to throw a proper jab, but then again, are you trying to throw an effective jab or an effective kick? If your end-goal is to throw a proper kick, you can stick your jab into someones face, regardless of it being "proper" or not, and it will still draw their attention away from the kick. It doesn't matter if your jab has power or not, you only need to stick it in their face to disguise your kick. And again, I disagree with stepping on your flat foot THEN raising up on your toes.

    Quote Originally Posted by j416to
    When you get better, in time, you'll be able to step forward, throw a jab that rotates your foot 90 degrees one way, then rotate your foot 180 degrees in the opposite direction, to generate a huge amount of power in your round house kick.
    I think this clearly illustrates where we differ. You are talking of throwing a jab where you completely rotate into the punch. If you're trying to hurt someone with your jab alone, then sure, rotate into it. But the jab is most commonly used to setup your other attacks. You use it to disrupt your opponents timing, to gauge their distance, and 'keep your hands in their face' so they are unable to see what is coming next.

    There are many ways to throw a jab, and the rotating jab you are speaking of is probably not the most effective choice for the combination you speak of. But then again, it obviously works for you. Different strokes for different folks....

    :)
  4. ac_dropout is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    51

    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 8:51am


     Style: TKD, Long Fist, Praying M

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, coming back to my point above, you CAN step in almost any direction before you kick and still generate power.
    But you still need to go through the same motions to generate the power from a round house. So yes you may step, run, skip anywhere in the ring. But when it is time to throw the kick, it is no different then if you were standing still throwing the kick.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
    WhiteShark's Avatar

    1% Shark is better than you.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Atlanta GA
    Posts
    9,176

    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 9:18am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Khun Kao is a pro MT fighter and a coach in Virginia btw. I really wich he would email Phrost so he could get an official forum tag.
  6. j416to is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,242

    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 1:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, Kenjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the way it's been explained to me is as follows:

    1) The flat-footed front step is the traditional Muay Thai horse step, the one that Omar often describes as the "foot in the paint can" step. This is not the significantly slower heel-to-toes walking gait.

    2) While the horse step is a little slower than simply stepping from balls of your feet to balls of your feet, this reduction in speed is compensated for by not stepping too far to the outside.

    3) And by horse stepping forward, and then pivoting up onto your toes, you're kicking while your contracting your calf muscle, rather than simply balancing yourself on the balls of your feet. This gives you more power and greater balance than you would otherwise have when you kick from the balls of your feet.

    4) When you kick from the balls of your feet you have to step to the outside, to generate enough momentum to keep yourself balanced, and to generate power. Here you have to be actually fall off of the balls of your feet, slightly, to maintain your balance when you make contact.

    5) With that being said, both styles generate roughly the same amount of power, and are of the same relative quickness.

    6) So why use the horse step? Because that allows you to use the exact same footwork for light jabs, hard jabs, crosses, and kicks. This prevents an advanced fighter from recognizing your different footwork setups, and knowing how to counter your strikes and kicks, as you step forward to initiate them.

    And since PorkFat said that he too is being taught to use the same initial footwork for all his strikes and kicks, I gave him the explanation of the style that I've been taught.

    And for the record, the head instructor at my club is a current SuperLeague fighter, and the owner of the club was a Northern Thailand Champion.
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