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  1. Charles Choi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 5:19pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Scissor half-guard: experiences and thoughts on passing

    Sometimes I pass ineffectively and end up in half guard. When I'm able to get head/arm control I'm OK for the half-guard pass because I decrease the space and can squash my opponent's body.

    But some of my training partners make/get space, they seem to be slipping in their top knee to push me away and to thwart my half-guard pass attempt.

    If I were big, I'd be pressing the knee down with my body weight and stretching out my legs to pass. But I'm not big. If I try that, my opponent sweeps. If I underhook the top leg to try and pry the knee away, I end up struggling against strength. If I pop up, sometimes my opponents use the pushing power of that knee and the pulling power of their upper body to try a kimura/transition into sweep.

    I've got a couple of things I've been/will be trying, but what've you tried? Have you experienced anything like this?
  2. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 7:07pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you do half-guard you want to be on your side right? So when you're passing, put him flat on his back and do you normal pass. If he's got his right leg hooking your right leg and his left knee across your chest - circle back to your right until he's flat on his back and both of his knees are pointing up.
  3. Jaguar Wong is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 7:28pm

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     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS
    When you do half-guard you want to be on your side right?
    That must be why my half guard is more like a lay and pray. So you want to be on your side that gets your hips out from under the guy (like you're going to take the back), right? I gotta really keep that in mind. Maybe I'll actually take the half guard on purpose instead of desparation.
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  4. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 7:39pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When doing half-guard the number one thing is to be on your side. To keep on your side, you want to stop the guy from doing a cross-face on you, or from getting an underhook on you because if he gets either he can flatten you out. Obviously you can start to work the lock-down, but I'm not a fan of it because you're essentially locking the guy's weight down on you.

    When passing from any position, you generally want to keep the guys shoulders and hips flat to the mat (if you can turn his hips away from you that's even better). If his back is on the mat he can't move back and create space and if his hips are pinned down he can't use his legs as well.

    In summary, when doing any sort of open guard, you want to stay off your back. When passing, you want to get your opponent's back flat on the mat.
  5. Jaguar Wong is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 7:51pm

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     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man I'm going to have to start crediting you when I start tapping the upper white belts at my BJJ school. I've learned just as much from reading your threads as I have from the actual class (well, you know...not really but still it's very helpful).

    I was going to start doing all that crazy Eddie Bravo lock down stuff, but a friend of mine showed me his version which was easier for me when I trying to prevent the pass and bust a sweep from half guard. Plus it uses less energy.
    Jaguar's MMA record
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  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 8:04pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's really really hard as a white belt (and probably any other belt) to put yourself in a bad (or at least not great) position on purpose. No one likes doing it.

    Thankfully, I got a nice kick in the ass at the last grappling tourney I did regarding my half guard. Namely, it is weak as ****. I have been working from it almost exclusively for the last couple weeks and will do it until it works out right.

    The other thing I have noticed in the past year is that it took me a really long time to get comfortable asking questions in class. For probably three or four months of my initial training, I wouldn't worry about a technique that I couldn't do completely right. I REALLY wish I had started speaking up a lot sooner than I did.
  7. Jaguar Wong is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 8:12pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by garbanzobean
    The other thing I have noticed in the past year is that it took me a really long time to get comfortable asking questions in class. For probably three or four months of my initial training, I wouldn't worry about a technique that I couldn't do completely right. I REALLY wish I had started speaking up a lot sooner than I did.

    Man I was annoying since day one. I was asking all kinds of questions, but then I slowed down when I thought I was eating up too much of the actual grappling time. But the instructor was cool with it (he told me later on), and wished more people would ask questions about their technique earlier and clean up their technique quicker.

    Now it seems the classes are larger, and someone always asks the questions I would be asking anyway, so I don't look so annoying anymore. :)
    Jaguar's MMA record
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  8. Kengou is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 9:58pm


     Style: TKD; BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just learned the lockdown today, actually. Now I'm obviously not very experienced, but the way he showed us was that once you get the lockdown and the double under-hooks, you need to use the lockdown to sort of bump the other guy higher up on you, so you get lower down near his hips. From there, you can grab his non-lockdowned foot, and go for Eddie Bravo's Old School sweep, or a variety of others. But while it does lock the guy's weight on top of you, it doesn't stay that way, because the lockdown gives you a lot of control since he loses his base on that side.

    But JohnnyS is certainly way more experienced than I am so I'm sure he's practiced the lockdown series and variations far more than I have.
  9. Charles Choi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 10:41pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS
    When you do half-guard you want to be on your side right? So when you're passing, put him flat on his back and do you normal pass. If he's got his right leg hooking your right leg and his left knee across your chest - circle back to your right until he's flat on his back and both of his knees are pointing up.

    JohnnyS,

    It's hard responding to do this kinda stuff over 'forums', so I do appreciate you taking the time.

    I can see where you're coming from as far as 'circling back' to flatten.

    But, do you find people then claim full guard when you do that?

    -Charles Choi
  10. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2005 10:42pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going to say it doesn't work, but I find it does instill bad habits in people. The lockdown was taught to the whitebelts at my school and they ALL had trouble being squashed. I taught the beginners/intermediate class for a couple of weeks and everyone's half-guard improved because I got them to stay on their side.
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