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  1. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Aug 2005
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    Baltimore, Maryland Area
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 4:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    Well, I guess if you carry a mat around with you all the time, that might be a valid reason.
    The validity is to be found in the alteration of the environment ... not as a map on template.
  2. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Mar 2005
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    Florida
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 4:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Looking good in the avatar, Kid.

    The park is good ... sometimes have everyone meet in the parking lot of a nearby Middle School. Park their cars like in a Mall lot and work on things in between the parked cars.

    Once in a while take everyone into the park woods on one of the nature trails and work out there.

    From time to time put some chairs in the work-out area and toss a few golf balls on the floor. Just something that demands being factored in while under pressure.

    I'm a big fan of sensory over-load in order to facilitate higher functioning in processing ability.

    Lots of ways to do it and each way adds a little something to the mix by way of requiring adaption in some measure.

    Over time I have found that "routine" = complacency ... and complacency kills. Break it up now and then to keep it fresh and interesting if not fun.
    Thanks for that response. The sensory overload factor is one thing I thought of as being a difference, when practicing in a park. But, I don't think that simply practicing in a park is sufficient for that. Sure, it's a different environment than the 4 walls of the dojo, but I'm not sure how significant of a difference. I was wondering if that was one of the motivations though.

    What you describe, JFS, makes a lot of sense and I see a great deal of value in that. Essentially creating or adding variables that the student is not used to, variables that need to be negotiated in some way, makes sense.

    I think that on a nice day, practicing outside is great, and perhaps there is more benefit than I think from simply changing your surroundings.

    What I wonder about though is if the instructor's motives were a change in surroundings, or to have them train on an incline, and if so, why. I also wonder how steep this incline was. I've never heard of training on an incline, and I can see some value in it, but not for 1.5 hrs. of sparring. I actually think that could be detrimental to one's training, especially for the newer students. Just curious about that.
  3. Shrfu_Eric is offline

    Registered Member

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    Oct 2005
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    Ch'town, PEI, Canada
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 4:56pm


     Style: Kajukenpo Ch'uan Fa / SW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If your instructor warned you ... what's the point. Street fighting training shouldn't need any warning nor should you use mats or be wearing a uniform or gear for that matter.

    It's reality training ... you don't get any warning in streetfights. Training should be in street clothing with objects in the way (as John pointed out) with a crowd ... maybe you peers crowding around. No stretching, maybe include objects found in the street ..IE a brick or stick. Reality training should make a person aware of the surroundings, amonnst others. Maybe add in a sucker punch to the equation. That's some shock reality there.

    Eric
    Last edited by Shrfu_Eric; 11/05/2005 4:58pm at .
  4. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 5:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    Sure, it's a different environment than the 4 walls of the dojo, but I'm not sure how significant of a difference.
    Just getting used to doing your thing on uneven footing must be a useful component in making sure that your full-contact competition training can be applied in 'real' situations.
  5. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 5:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Just getting used to doing your thing on uneven footing must be a useful component in making sure that your full-contact competition training can be applied in 'real' situations.
    I agree with that, which is why I'm surprised they used mats.
  6. Camus is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 5:36pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I prefer to take my outdoor training while inebriated, I've found that it allows the practitioner a high level of focus due to the inability to feel the pain and discomfort caused by gravel or sidewalk or whatever else one finds one's self on. Submissions are also more likely to be over-applied, possibly resulting in injury, thus adding feelings of danger and urgency. Also, having such practice sessions at night, preferably after a great deal of celebration and in whatever clothes you happen to be wearing, futher adds to the 'real life' street effect.

    The presence of narcotics is also recommended for spot training. Advanced stylists might also include hallucinogens to encourage a more 'internal' style of training. Your individual mileage may vary.
  7. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 5:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    Thanks for that response. The sensory overload factor is one thing I thought of as being a difference, when practicing in a park. But, I don't think that simply practicing in a park is sufficient for that. Sure, it's a different environment than the 4 walls of the dojo, but I'm not sure how significant of a difference.
    To me, any "difference" is significant as it combats the defect of ritual. Ritual indoctrination is often times subtle ... so much so that a person might not even being aware of it taking place.

    Ritual is intimately tied into mental - emotional - psychological ramp up and that's not a good way to go. Becoming dependent on something other than self makes no sense to me. Toss away the crusty "lucky socks" and stand on your own two feet.

    I've held practice on inclines, in the snow, the pouring rain, freezing cold, blistering heat, ice covered parking lots ... it's something be used from time to time as a routine buster.

    In the past, just for my own personal training, I've hung saws, hammers, & knives from the ceiling and set them at various heights in my work out space. Just to **** with myself.

    From time to time I'll have a couple of the guys load up on bean bags I made and throw them at the guys sparring ... just to **** with them.

    Two things a person has -0- control over. 1 is the opponent. You cannot limit or restrict how big they are, how fast they are, how strong they are, their emotional state, their level of MA skill ... you can't do squat about them.

    2 is the enviroment. You don't get to choose where and when it will happen ... you cannot control or dictate to the external World.

    All of the above is not just for "the street" ... any formal Comp peep would benefit from developing greater flexibility in their processing & response ranges. It provides for a greater depth in the ability to adapt on the move and that plays well in a Comp setting.

    The main thing is to not become focused on doing the activity under adverse conditions as being the goal. That becomes like working hard to be skilled in a drill. The idea is to infuse some "odd" elements ... the novelty factor ... and perform the target activity to standards under altered conditions. Repeated exposure to the same alterations quickly flat lines and becomes status quo.

    Shake it up a bit and see what happens. When you go back into a nice practice environment you will find that the decreased visual stimulus alone results in a greater level of concentration. It becomes easier to remain focused and on task.

    BTW, I NEVER stretch out before sparring. Maybe, maybe a little activity specific ROM movement but that's it. The whole "stretch before training" thing has finally been "scientifically" proved to be bullshit ... just like some of us KNEW it was ... over 3 decades ago. Nice that "science" finally caught up.
    Last edited by JFS USA; 11/05/2005 10:47pm at .
  8. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 6:16pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A lot of my sparring is done outside on an inclined surface, or on a flat, dusty surface. There are a few reasons for this. The incline changes the dynamics of movement and balance... and in unarmed combat it isn't necessarily always good to have the high ground. Its worth training this to see what works better based on your relative position. The dusty ground (loose fine dirt) allows for a situation where sweeps are much more effective. You have to be really careful and fight with a different set of tactics.

    Anyway, its worth doing simply to get people thinking about different environments and to make things interesting.
  9. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 6:17pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I frequently hold my grappling sessions over lava pits surrounded by broken glass. Wimps.
  10. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2005 6:24pm


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm confused, JFS: you're NOT supposed to warmup/stretch before training? Can you explain why this is? I'm actually quite curious, I alway thought that doing the warmups loosened the muscles and reduced injury. Most of the injuries and muscle sprains I've had are the product of not stretching before attempting to kick things.
    Rad ki was made up by adolescents. I do not know who created trad ki but it was not made by adolescents. your an ass dude, Im not being a little bitch you are, your past the level of a bitch. Your beyond Bitch! If im easting my time with ki and psi, then your wasting time to prove frauds, and all **** like that! -theoutsider

    Kick boxing is ok, but don't expect do beat a man like Rickson Gracie with that. You need a real martial art. You need Xing Yi Quan. -Emptyflower

    The splits, how ever, have a few martial uses. Doing the splits for me, can put my fists in testical strike range.

    dont ignore the Art for the Martial or else your just kick boxing

    Yes i am serious, there are kicks that can block punches. we have them in Moo duk kwan.
    I want to learn how to use them in case my arm gets broken in a fight.
    what would you have me do? if my arm gets broke, not block punches? -sempi-stone
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