Posted On:11/04/2005 7:43pm
Style: Muay Thai
I dropped by a DC area Tukong dojo; sharing what I saw. First, my background. Did Capoeira for a while, then Aikido, then Taijutsu, then I started boxing. Now I do Muay Thai, though not all that well.
Website for tukong is tukong.com and reads pretty straight bullshido. Special forces, too dangerous for competition, etc. Talked to the webmaster and former instructor and was told stories of training bodyguards for the South Korean President and leg pressing 1300 pounds due to special training discovered in a ninjitsu book that his old master kept.
Grandmaster Kim is taking over the dojo and ran the session I attended. Apparently he was an instructor at a police academy for the past few years, and I have to admit, he certainly knows his pressure points. Practice is less structured than the website indicates. He pushed hard on a 13 or so year old short fat black kid, but no one else, grappling with him and lightly hitting him in the face and admonishing his to keep his eyes open while Kim struck. I know realistic training is important, but this was just bullying and humiliation. Session I attended was hapkido-style grappling done without resistance. I'm clumsy and picked it up faster than than the mid-level student I was partnered with. Would never try to apply the armlock I was taught in a fight or real sparring session anyway.
I have to admit, I didn't spar with anyone and don't have real proof of bullshido, but certainly have some circumstantial evidence. Kim might be real, but the training and students didn't impress me. If anyone would like I can do a review of the Ki-Aikido dojo I attended some time ago, but I think you can guess the opinion.
Anyone who has more info, please share.
Posted On:11/04/2005 8:12pm
Yup -- Master Kim is a hard core trainer... almost brutal at times. The web master guy is Jimmy Higgins and is full of hot air most of the time....
If you cruise their web site you will find information about meditation down to the cellular level! -- lol
I can answer some questions... if you do a search on this site you might find some background info too.
Posted On:11/04/2005 8:20pm
Thier is the thread... one correction from what I wrote back then*... Inki Kim does like ground fighting, Hapkido style, but I believe Jimmy Higgins has siad that he is a stand up fighter and prefers the fight not go to the ground... so he trains for that.
**yes my writting sucks, and I try to double check it but at least I let you know when I messed up :)
Posted On:11/04/2005 8:25pm
Heh, yeah, I've been looking at this site for a month before I posted. I did search and read that thread, just thought I would add what my experience. I never saw Kim do anything but pressure points, and I personally don't trust those since some failed in a wrestling match with a friend of mine. Some searches show that other folks on this site don't trust PP either.
Posted On:11/16/2006 3:46pm
It is amazing that anyone can make a judgment of an entire training program from a few classes.
As to how Master Kim trains students, we are at odds with each other on this. He thinks every person from the beginning should have realistic training. I personally do not see the point of training realistically when a person cannot 1) realistically perform the techniques yet and 2) Cannot control their movements well enough not to possibly severely hurt their partner.
I will train people in a VERY structured way, but Master Kim doe snot want people to think in terms of requirements and the next level and how do a get my next belt. He and I both do not think belts means much if your ability to use the knowledge sucks.
But I do see a value of building more and more advanced skill sets on top of increased physical ability and conditioning. The "young, fat black ("black" said by the poster as if black was a shortcoming)" needed more conditioning and more maturity in my opinion before he is taught how to hurt people. I would not have allowed him in my class.
The youngest I ever allowed in my classes was 14 and that ONLY after 2 hours of discussion with the child and his parents on what I expected and what would happen if he was not serious and started playing around.
I had one of my senior students, who is a 2nd Degree BB now and a military intelligence officer in Korea, become too complacent about the training and not being as serious as she should be in her 2nd year of training. She had tested as a TKD black Belt and realized how little that required of her even though she had won tournaments against much more experienced competitors. I wanted all my students to be serious, but I would not use pressure points or pain on them in training until they had matured in ability and conditioning.
I went to class that consisted of 3 senior students (I never had more than 6 students in a class at the same level), and used a simple pressure point on her and put her unconscious for a few seconds. I released the pressure point and the other two male students were stunned. She never hit the floor as I held her when she slumped. She came to and started to cry from fear and the other students, who had seen Master Kim teach but never seen me do anything like this were in shock.
I told them that they needed to be serious in their training and understand I am teaching them many ways to kill or injure that was designed for Special Forces troops in Korea. She would not come to class for 2 days because she was afraid I would put her unconscious or worse. I showed the two others exactly what I had done and how to do it. They practiced the same technique on each other under close supervision. It worked correctly and they were excited to know how to use a pressure point to either control or kill a person. They went to the other student's house and showed her and explained everything and she came back to learn more.
She stopped running at night or riding her bike once she realized how easy it is to hurt or kill someone. She asked if she would ever lose the fear? I told her she would once she got high enough in the ranks with enough knowledge and prove skill and ability. She did 3 years later when she tested for her senior red belt and passed everything including, ground fighting, pressure points with sharp and pressure points with blunt objects, throwing stars, knives, axes, advanced combat strategy, philosophy, meditation, nutrition, leverage techniques, advanced Hapkido, long staff, short staff fighting, knife attacks and defense from front, back and multiple attackers, street fighting weapons and tactics, 100 pushups, timed sprints, pull-ups, sit-ups, 5 days or 1000 kicks, personal philosophy journal review, written and oral exams of all lower level techniques and classes, interrogation techniques, psychological attacks and defense for control or diffusion, and a few other areas. She passed well and her confidence was enough to control her fear and she started running and riding her bike at night again.
But it took 5 years of constant training to get her from NO knowledge and zero ability but good basic conditioning form years of dance and ballet to a qualified Senior Red Belt in Tukong designed for Special Forces. Now she is in Korea working with the Tukong units and she knows more about hand-to-hand combat fighting than anyone she has met and she teaches classes too.
She can tell you also how breathing and meditation can effect the body's ability to function including on a cellular level or membrane usage of water and proteins for conversion into ATP and ADP while under stressful situation or underwater when you need to relax and NOT breathe.
Some people never learn this and make fun of those with more in depth knowledge.
I am Jimmy Higgins. I was there.
Posted On:11/16/2006 3:53pm
Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar
why do you have throwing stars in your curriculum..seems pretty pointless.
Posted On:11/16/2006 5:09pm
Originally Posted by Axelton
why do you have throwing stars in your curriculum..seems pretty pointless.
I assure you that they are not Pointless. ;) The fighting stars have 4 points. You do not actually throw them, you use them in your palm while you make a fists and the 4 points extend out in 4 directions. Very useful in fighting, but you can throw them in you want.
I carried 2 with me as I walked everywhere in Southeast Washington, DC. that has one of the highest crime rates and murder rates anywhere. In fact, the DC Chief of Police declared a Crime Emergency about 2 months ago it is so bad. I worked with troubled kids and tutored in very bad sections of DC that regularly have robberies and murders. I witnessed one myself when I was walking the kids back to the "Projects" where they lived. I had to testify in front of the Grand Jury on what I saw. I made 3 citizen's arrests in DC.
I Austin, a parent called me and asked me to find her 16 year old daughter who she had not seen in a week. I talked with a few of her friends and did some scouting and found her turning tricks on a street in East Austin. I picked her up and told her I was talking her home. She wanted to go by an apartment and get her clothes from the guy that had roped her into doing this.
We went to the apartment and the guy thought I was just another "John" so he let me in and there was an older man running the operation sitting on the bed on the phone. I did not follow the girl into the room and the young guy said I could go on in. I told him she was here to get her clothes and that we were leaving and she was not coming back. The older man heard this and started threatening me while still on the phone and the young guy slinked off to the corner.
I had both stars in my hands when I walked in but you can't see them until I make a fists. I don't like guns. The girl came out of the room with her stuff and the older man knew what was going on. I was going to take one of his best cash cows off the street and way from him.
He started to reach into the drawer by the bed and I put one star right past his face and buried it into the headboard next to his head and he froze. I told the girl to get me the gun.. She walked over the drawer and opened it and there was a gun inside. She got it and gave it to me. I told her to get her stuff and put it into the car.
The older man started to talk and I cocked the gun. He shut up and I walked over and took the star out of the headboard and walked over to the door. I told him that the next time he talks I put a star through his head. He said nothing. I un-cocked the gun and emptied the cylinder of bullets onto the floor. I said you get this back when we leave.
We sat there in silence as she got the rest of her stuff and walked out of the room to the car. I looked at both of them and said, "I never want to you see you near hear again or you will die. And you never want to see me again." I tossed the young guy the empty gun and walked out and closed the door. I ran like a track star for the car and drove off.
Just as we get out of the parking lot, she say, wait I forgot a pair of shoes under the bed. As if I was going back there now. I told her she could buy herself new shoes and drove her home to her mother. They had a teary reunion and the mom thanked me profusely. The stars are NOT pointless.
I training, they are a skill that tells you just how well you are focused and how well you can control your body in eye and hand coordination that throwing a ball will not do. They are a prelude to learning Knife throwing.
I am Jimmy Higgins. I was there.
Posted On:11/16/2006 5:28pm
Ok ........I have a question..........if you hold the star in your hand so the 4 points stick out .........won't you cut your hand up if you hit somebody or if you squeeze too hard ?
As to the other story .......I'm sorry but I don't believe it........first if them cats were running a 16 year old gal and had only had her a week then she wasn't their moneymaker.........second the cats where I'm from that will run young girls like that usually have em strung out and usually they're pimping and selling D..
Now if you don't know whereever there's D and Dboys there's guns .....dude on the bed wouldn't have kept a gun in a drawer where he'd have to put in effort to get it especially with folks in the room.......i.e. you'd be too close for him to know that he could get to the gun before you did something to him......most boys I know that are dirty keep their gun so close it squeak when they move......
Usually you ain't going to where the hoe lives and especially not where her pimp/Dboy lives .........them broads turn tricks in cars or by the hour tellies..........and even if you got to their apartment there would be no way in hell you were going in..........if it was that easy undercovers would be following hookers home everyday all day and just walking up in the pad...............ain't no stranger coming inside
This story has way too many holes for it to be true..........somebody that's never been in the streets might believe this but I've been in Dhouses, I personally know pimps and Dboys , in my younger days I worked in the kitchen in the house I know how that work..........and the stuff you say is more movie than reality....in reality and the places I've been and lived that would've been your last day on this earth ............ninja stars and hollywood bravado aside....
Strength & Honor
RIP Titan Rook
Posted On:11/16/2006 5:39pm
thats cool then sorta like brass knuckles but not on your knuckles
Posted On:11/16/2006 5:41pm
Style: boxing, gjj
Jimmy, I assume you told the APD there was an underage prostitution ring you knew of. Funny, I've not heard of one being broken up here, EVER.
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