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  1. Equipoise is offline
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    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 8:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Listen cupcake, do a search for my name and read the numerous threads on exercise as well as my own wave form periodization program. You really have no idea what you're getting yourself into.
  2. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 8:54pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe I read this wrong but did Gringo grande say he did 21's on the bench or as a bench press?Because I do them standing-up.So if there's a new way of doing things.......

    So if that's the case then can someone send me pics of the proper way of doing these moves please.
  3. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 9:09pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KeinHaar
    To everyone but Ronin and Akira,

    If you understood some really basic principles, you could reason your way through why these "21s" would, or would not impart some novel stimulus.

    I'm not saying this protocol does not impart a novel stimulus, it's just that your current reasoning behind WHY is wrong.
    I just see it as a funny way of adding partials into your routine. I dunno if that's right or not, but since I never use em, I'm not going to waste too much time wondering about why they do or do not work. I'd rather just get the basic idea, decide if I want to use it, then either keep it or scrap it. If I keep it, that's when I want to get more into the how and why.
  4. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 10:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/Team7.wmv



    Seriously, are there any crossfit nutriders with legs bigger than 15 inches? No offense. This has to be the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. <--- Credit to Apostol for that comment.


    Just watch that and you'll get all the evidence you need that Crossfag is worthless.


    Let's see how many screwups that people can name in this video.


    http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/pull-up_7.wmv

    For the love of Lucifer, look at this horse ****.


    Seriously, do we need more evidence?
  5. Apostol is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 10:54pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/bottom-to-bottom_1.mpg

    The screams at 1:00 are priceless.

    Crossfit is the Ashida Kim of weightlifting.
  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 10:57pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They kick their feet way too much. So much for dead hang.
  7. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 11:08pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AkiraMusashi
    http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/Team7.wmv



    Seriously, are there any crossfit nutriders with legs bigger than 15 inches? No offense. This has to be the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. <--- Credit to Apostol for that comment.


    Just watch that and you'll get all the evidence you need that Crossfag is worthless.


    Let's see how many screwups that people can name in this video.


    http://www.crossfit.com/cf-video/pull-up_7.wmv

    For the love of Lucifer, look at this horse ****.


    Seriously, do we need more evidence?
    Ahh, Kipping pull ups. Once again you make a superficial judgement without understanding anything.

    Kipped pull ups are actually a technique that serve a functional purpose -- dead-hang pull ups and others are also used. I won't go into the details of why kipped pull ups are good/useful -- again, that's all in the crossfit message boards. In a nutshell, kipped pull ups engage the abs more and generate an explosive movement for explosive power. Easier than dead-hangs, yes -- but kipped pull ups are the foundation for doing Muscle Ups -- i.e. hanging from gymnastics rings and pulling yourself up into dip position -- it is extremely hard and takes a long time to develop.

    BTW -- can you do 40 consecutive pull ups, kipped or otherwse, in less than 75 seconds? Can you do muscle ups? Both are very difficult. Both require a lot of strength & coordination (the latter of which is often missing from more traditional body building).

    As for leg size -- who the hell cares? Watch the video of the 175LB Power lifter tossing 300+ pounds up over his head doing squat cleans. That's impressive stuff.

    And -- I don't care what you post or what you think you know on these boards -- you've demonstrated none of it in this thread.

    I am beginnning to suspect that you are merely interested in defending your own limited world view of fitness. You've done nothing but toss useless, trollish derision ("crossfag" ? Please. Grow up) and pre-cursory observations without digging into the details. That's fine -- clearly arguing is pointless, as you clearly have nothing useful to contribute. Again, go to crossfit message boards -- use the search function -- and learn. Or post some questions. Or post your questions to me and I'll post them on the boards if you want some in depth answers from those more expert than I.

    I sincerely doubt your knowledge and experience is the equal of the crossfit founders, coaches, and others that regularly contribute to those boards. I don't think Crossfit is the ultimate, be-all end all in fitness, but I think it's a very valuable and the best path to overall, general, functional fitness.

    Anoher way to look at: tell us why olympic style lifting and gymnastics AREN't good for developihg strength, explosive power, and general fitness. Those two elements are both strong components of crossfit.

    -daGorilla
  8. Apostol is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 11:31pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, but when you weigh 110 and swing like crazy, 36 pull-ups is not an incredible achievement. Some Skinny guys that weigh 140 and do not even work out can often times do over 15 pull-ups.

    As for 300 pound squat cleans, 175 pounds isn't as skinny as those guys were. It's pretty rare to have total stick legs and be able to do any type of squat over 200 pounds.

    I hate to be so cocky, but when a crossfit guy starts preaching that his stuff is "the way" and that lifting heavy iron is "not optimal" or even BS for martial arts, don't think that everyone else is going to sit back and take it.

    Crossfit and doing fake pullups is like throwing sand in someones eyes, and actually lifting heavy ass weights is like doing MMA. Heh, just kidding. But really, I'm not trying to come off as a smartass, but let me say one thing:

    Random things will lead to random results. Eventually you're going to stop making gains, hit a plateau, and eventually get injured. This is why I disagree with crossfit's philosophy. You can not just go to the gym and say "Oh leg day!" Then do a bunch of random BS. You've got to do the exact same routine for 4-6 weeks, and progressively increase reps and weight. Then change the intensity and rep ranges through periodization. How are you supposed to track progress when you're doing random crap every day?

    By doing random exercises like the crossfit workout of the day, you're also just setting yourself up for injury. Exercises have to be brought into the picture slowly, you can't just tell someone to slap some weight on the bar and do some heavy ass power cleans & jerks.
  9. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 11:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll handle this with specifics later when I return, Yes, I can do 40 pullups in 75 seconds. Today I was doing a 6x5 with 80lbs hanging between my crotch. I also did 78 pushups in a minute on my PT exam. Cfag sucks.
  10. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/03/2005 12:01am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Apostol
    Sorry, but when you weigh 110 and swing like crazy, 36 pull-ups is not an incredible achievement. Some Skinny guys that weigh 140 and do not even work out can often times do over 15 pull-ups.

    As for 300 pound squat cleans, 175 pounds isn't as skinny as those guys were. It's pretty rare to have total stick legs and be able to do any type of squat over 200 pounds.

    I hate to be so cocky, but when a crossfit guy starts preaching that his stuff is "the way" and that lifting heavy iron is "not optimal" or even BS for martial arts, don't think that everyone else is going to sit back and take it.

    Crossfit and doing fake pullups is like throwing sand in someones eyes, and actually lifting heavy ass weights is like doing MMA. Heh, just kidding. But really, I'm not trying to come off as a smartass, but let me say one thing:

    Random things will lead to random results. Eventually you're going to stop making gains, hit a plateau, and eventually get injured. This is why I disagree with crossfit's philosophy. You can not just go to the gym and say "Oh leg day!" Then do a bunch of random BS. You've got to do the exact same routine for 4-6 weeks, and progressively increase reps and weight. Then change the intensity and rep ranges through periodization. How are you supposed to track progress when you're doing random crap every day?

    By doing random exercises like the crossfit workout of the day, you're also just setting yourself up for injury. Exercises have to be brought into the picture slowly, you can't just tell someone to slap some weight on the bar and do some heavy ass power cleans & jerks.
    Ah, excellent points!

    First, I never said lifting heavy iron wasn't good for martial arts. I'm all for it -- I'm working on my olympic lifts but have a long ways to go before I'll be squat-cleaning 300LBs or deadlifting 3X bodyweight. Crossfit is scalable -- the bigger guys do bigger weights, low reps, sometimes scaling upwards. We don't disagree here. It's all good. Olympic style lifting, however, emphasizes explosive power through the legs/hips/core (great for martial arts), whereas your more typical body building style lifting does not. That's why I think Crossfit's lifting routines are particularly good for martial artists.

    Also the "fake" pull ups are not fake. There is a reason for the kipping --it's not a crappy/cheater pull up. (Cross fit does other pull ups as well - towel pull ups, L-pull ups, rope climbs, dead hangs, etc.) Doing kipped pull ups takes skill. Part of the reason for the kipping is skill transfer to learning muscle ups (and eventually dropping the kip when you're strong enough). Also, kipped pull ups emphasize explosive power and bring the abs more into the equation -- and there tends to be assloads of pull ups in crossfit workouts.

    Also, the workout of the day is intended to be scalable, modable, and complimentary to virtually any other training. It's not a catch-all (though it can be) for every athlete needs. I merely contend that the skills and strength you can build through their methods are particularly good for martial arts.

    In addition, there is a full 12 week "Beginner's Program" for crossfit. It is designed for people new to the programs and even new to fitness. (I wouldn't expect you to find it right away unless you're on the message boards -- no biggie). I agree -- a noob jumping in full bore to crossfit is in for a world of hurt. The beginner's program is designed to teach basic technqiue and slowly scale to the ability of the beginner. In addition, if you work out at an actual Crossfit facility (sadly, I don't because none are near), they offer classes and seminars on the lifts. (I'm hoping to take some in the not too distant future to brush up my form.)

    As for periodization -- you won't see it so much in sampling 5 days of workout, but you will generally see plenty of repeats over 30 days (again, the ideal being 3 days on and 1 day off) -- not repeats of exact workouts, but plenty of repeated olympic style lifts (cleans, snatches, overhead squats, deadlifts, etc.), pull ups, dips, and other staples, mixed and matched in a variety of ways.

    As for tracking progress, there are many work outs of the day that are measured by time ("Run 5K for time") or "X number of rounds of exercises for time." I track them by writing them down. Occasionally, I'll repeat a work out of the day from a month or more ago, or just pick one from the Crossfit FAQ to use as a benchmark, to track results. And in 4-5 months I've seen marked improvement in a number of areas (more pull ups, my 5K times have decreased, and my leg strength and form seems to have improved on Deadlifts and Squats).

    I don't think Crossfit does anything "anti" workout -- "anti bodybuilding" to a degree, sure, but I think it's all sound, and it works well for me. I'm not particularly big or strong, but I'm in good overall shape (strong runner, strong swimmer, flexible, dcent all around strength, but wih plenty of room to improve.)

    I'm also not a "Crossfit guy" selling "my way". I'm a long-time martial arts guy and an amateur fitness guy whose been in the gym a long time, and I came across Crossfit about 5-6 months ago... tried it and I liked it. Yep, I evangelize it. Nope, I don't think everything else is crap (unless it's not Scottish), but I do think Crossfit is an excellent fitness program and strength/endurance foundation for martial arts in particular.

    (Oh, and at least according to the video -- yes, that dude weighed 180 lbs, and he was snatching/squat cleaning 150kg with perfect form -- and I dare say almost casually at that. )

    Anyway, I don't think we disagree as much as we might have thought.... the devil is in the details. This has been a generally fun discussion (for me anyway) nonetheless.

    -daGorilla
    Last edited by daGorilla; 11/03/2005 12:44am at .
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