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  1. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 3:19pm

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     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daGorilla
    On the contrary -- the workouts are carefully designed by a coach (or coaches) who have been coaching professional athletes for over 25 years.

    You obviously haven't read enough of the site (or the message boards) to understand the methodologies. Study more before you judge. Read the Crossfit FAQ for starters.

    Part of that methodology is that "routine" is the enemy. However, if you look at the workouts over the course of weeks or months, you'll see some subtle patterns in the way the workouts attack your body. In addition, because the workouts attack your body in so many different ways (for example, squats, olympic lifts, and unique exercises like "wall ball"), you never get bored and your body is constantly adapting to the new stimulus.

    The Crossfit folks are not just a bunch of "hardcore" athletes thumping their chests at their workout prowess on the Internet. They are professionals -- and IMHO represent the best approach to both general fitness and superior strengthening and conditioning. I pimp them because I've done just about everything else over the last 20 years, and I believe Crossfit is the best of the bunch. It's fun, it's extremely challenging, it's never boring, and it will turn you into a fucking machine. Wish I'd found it 20 years ago -- I'd already be one.

    -daGorilla

    It's still crap. If you want me to get into why, I will. Yes, constant routine is the enemy, but some routine is needed. Progressive resistance is needed to get stronger, not 300 bw squats.
  2. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 3:55pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quikfeet beat Ronin to the beaver remark.

    Hell just hit 32F.
  3. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 4:00pm

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     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KeinHaar
    Quikfeet beat Ronin to the beaver remark.

    Hell just hit 32F.
    I noticed that too. Ronin is slipping, or maybe his wife finally gave it up last night. He'll be back to his old self again by tomorrow.
  4. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 4:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** all you guys !
  5. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 4:06pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AkiraMusashi
    It's still crap. If you want me to get into why, I will. Yes, constant routine is the enemy, but some routine is needed. Progressive resistance is needed to get stronger, not 300 bw squats.
    You still obviously haven't studied the site enough (if at all).

    First, you are only quoting from a single, sample "Workout of the day" that I posted. The Crossfit FAQ has about 20-30 "named" workouts, that are often used, either as a workout of the day, or for people to simply pick and use as they see fit. Regardless, the coaches behind Crossfit essentially create new workouts and workout regimens virtually every day. (Variety is part of what makes it effective and fun.)

    To go on, there is plenty of resistance in Crossfit, mainly in the form of Olympic lifts (clean & jerk, squats (front, back, etc.), deadlifts, snatch, etc.).

    Olympic Lifts are an integral part of Crossfit. Some workouts will be heavy loads (such as a Deadlift 10 sets in 3-3-2-2-2-1-1-1-1-1, operating in a generally heavy, progressive weight range appropriate to the individual).

    Alternately, another workout might call for a lighter deadlift load and have you knock out higher rep sets, often interspersed with running or other exercises, and often (but not always) done for time (i.e. against a continually running stop clock, with the goal being to complete the workout as quickly as possible).

    Calling it crap is... well, silly. I'm not a fitness expert (merely a long-time amateur that reads alot and has trained a lot of different ways over the last 20 years) , but in case you missed it from an earlier post, Crossfit was founded by folks who have been coaching top-tier/professional athletes for over 25 years. I follow their message boards, and there are many, many highly qualified fitness professionals that contribute their insight and advice there, (including Crossfit's founder ("Coach Sommers") on a regular basis.

    -daGorilla
  6. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 4:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is no methodical approach to their lifting scheme. Crossfit sucks.

    Clean 3-3-3 reps
    Run 2000 meters
    Clean 3-3-3 reps


    Five rounds for time:
    135 pound Bench press, 21 reps
    Run 400 meters


    50-40-30-20 and 10 rep rounds of:
    Wall-ball, 20 pound ball
    Slam-ball, 20 pound ball


    Clean and Jerk 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps


    For fifteen minutes do pull-ups for twenty seconds, then sit-ups for twenty seconds, followed by squats for twenty seconds.


    Past week for Crossfit. Please show me some sort of progressive cohesiveness to these exercises. Work with specificity and towards a goal. The CNS needs specific stimuli to initiate growth and change. Doing random things with no rhyme or reason everday will just promote a mediocre level of fitness with slow growth and strength gains.
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 5:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that crossfit seems ideal for those that "get bored quickly" or just don't "like" lifting weights as their primary mode of exercise.

    As a MA, with limited time, I don't feel crossfit is the scheme for me, I need a certain consistency to charter my progress or lack there off.
    In terms of cardio or muscular endurance, my MA training gives more more than enough, and I don't have the time ( or need) to do even more.
    If I had the extra time, I probably would do more MA, rather than more of "something else".

    I think that, for those who enjoy crosstraining, crossfit fits them to a "t".
  8. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 5:28pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AkiraMusashi
    There is no methodical approach to their lifting scheme. Crossfit sucks.

    Clean 3-3-3 reps
    Run 2000 meters
    Clean 3-3-3 reps


    Five rounds for time:
    135 pound Bench press, 21 reps
    Run 400 meters


    50-40-30-20 and 10 rep rounds of:
    Wall-ball, 20 pound ball
    Slam-ball, 20 pound ball


    Clean and Jerk 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps


    For fifteen minutes do pull-ups for twenty seconds, then sit-ups for twenty seconds, followed by squats for twenty seconds.


    Past week for Crossfit. Please show me some sort of progressive cohesiveness to these exercises. Work with specificity and towards a goal. The CNS needs specific stimuli to initiate growth and change. Doing random things with no rhyme or reason everday will just promote a mediocre level of fitness with slow growth and strength gains.
    Read this -- it answers some fundamental questions (including the one you just asked): http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-foundtn.html.

    Also, note that Crossfit isn't about "Lifting" it's about strength and overall fitness, which it tackles more than adequately (i'd say better than most programs). Crossfit is not about specificity -- if you'd read enough of the site, you'd know that.

    The link above goes to a PDF file that gives a broad overview of their foundations, which sheds some light on their methods and core principles, and should shed some light on the program above. Personally, I'm surprised you can't see the pattern itself. (I'm not an expert, but even I can see the pattern.)

    Also, if "Crossfit sucks" is all you've got, then you just aren't or haven't read enough. If you're THAT confident in your own VAST knolwedge of fitness and health, I challenge you to go to the Crossfit forums and start posting about how much Crossfit sucks and why you believe that to be true. The crossfit experts/founders should be able to more than adequately address your questions/concerns. Many of them range from coaches to fitness professionals to PhD's in fitness-related sciences.

    Of course, as resistant as you seem to be to new ideas about fitness, I fully expect you to shirk from that challenge. I don't expect everyone to go jump on the crossfit bandwagon -- nor can I adequately explain it in a nutshell, so if you really want to learn about it, go to the site and study it (their FAQ and the link above are a good place to start).

    What I fail to understand is why you seem so resistant to new information about fitness. I think Crossfit is great stuff (read: nutrider) and I like to share it -- but you seem to take it as a personal attack on your own beliefs about fitness. Either that or you're just a troll.

    -daGorilla
  9. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 6:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by daGorilla
    Read this -- it answers some fundamental questions (including the one you just asked): http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-foundtn.html.

    Also, note that Crossfit isn't about "Lifting" it's about strength and overall fitness, which it tackles more than adequately (i'd say better than most programs). Crossfit is not about specificity -- if you'd read enough of the site, you'd know that.
    I wasn't aware that "fitness" was a measurement. Also, no it's not better than most programs for gaining strength. That's a completely ignorant and erroneous statement. How about you do research into other methods of exercise and lifting before you start espousing how wonderful CF is.

    The link above goes to a PDF file that gives a broad overview of their foundations, which sheds some light on their methods and core principles, and should shed some light on the program above. Personally, I'm surprised you can't see the pattern itself. (I'm not an expert, but even I can see the pattern.)
    The only thing it sheds light on is basic strength training principles which any lifter should know about. Such as doing compound movements, and how specific lifts create more of a CNS response than others. It's a cheap informational brochure that alludes to a few things but doesn't really get down to why they do things specifically. Also, that part about Neuroendocrinology and how "specific lifting methods," create a response similar to exogenous hormone usage is complete horseshit. They say that high glycemic foods are bad because they illicit a negative response. High glycemic foods are important for a quick energy store before and after lifting. Ever heard the term, anabolic aid? Also the caveman model for eating..more antiquated crap.

    Also, if "Crossfit sucks" is all you've got, then you just aren't or haven't read enough. If you're THAT confident in your own VAST knolwedge of fitness and health, I challenge you to go to the Crossfit forums and start posting about how much Crossfit sucks and why you believe that to be true. The crossfit experts/founders should be able to more than adequately address your questions/concerns. Many of them range from coaches to fitness professionals to PhD's in fitness-related sciences.
    CF sucks. How about you gather some of your nutriders and come over here, or perhaps the T-nation boards.


    What I fail to understand is why you seem so resistant to new information about fitness. I think Crossfit is great stuff (read: nutrider) and I like to share it -- but you seem to take it as a personal attack on your own beliefs about fitness. Either that or you're just a troll.
    IT'S NOT NEW INFORMATION. It's just some backwashed bullshit with no specific goal. Fitness is a nebulous term. Sure doing pullups and squats will make you stronger, but how about we focus in upon specific levels of intensity and volume and put it into a periodization cycle, not just run 2000 meters and do pushups until you barf.
    Last edited by Equipoise; 11/02/2005 6:56pm at .
  10. daGorilla is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 8:34pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AkiraMusashi
    I wasn't aware that "fitness" was a measurement. Also, no it's not better than most programs for gaining strength. That's a completely ignorant and erroneous statement. How about you do research into other methods of exercise and lifting before you start espousing how wonderful CF is.



    The only thing it sheds light on is basic strength training principles which any lifter should know about. Such as doing compound movements, and how specific lifts create more of a CNS response than others. It's a cheap informational brochure that alludes to a few things but doesn't really get down to why they do things specifically. Also, that part about Neuroendocrinology and how "specific lifting methods," create a response similar to exogenous hormone usage is complete horseshit. They say that high glycemic foods are bad because they illicit a negative response. High glycemic foods are important for a quick energy store before and after lifting. Ever heard the term, anabolic aid? Also the caveman model for eating..more antiquated crap.



    CF sucks. How about you gather some of your nutriders and come over here, or perhaps the T-nation boards.




    IT'S NOT NEW INFORMATION. It's just some backwashed bullshit with no specific goal. Fitness is a nebulous term. Sure doing pullups and squats will make you stronger, but how about we focus in upon specific levels of intensity and volume and put it into a periodization cycle, not just run 2000 meters and do pushups until you barf.
    1) I've been exercising in other programs for many years. Been there, Done that. In my experience (and in the experiences of many Crossfitters, it is a superior vehicle for overall strength. There is plenty of hard science on it on their web site and in their forums, as well as their affiliates. I doubt I could adequtely explain it in a single or multiple forum posts.

    2) You're right, it's not new. It's been used to coach olympic level athletes and other top-tier athletes for decades. However, it isn't "vogue" either, so not as many people know about it. It certainly isn't getting pimped at your local Gold's or 24Hr.

    3) There is no reason to get Crossfitters to come here. Though many are martial artists, most are not. You should spend some time on their boards -- there is a lot of good info there.

    4) Crossfit workouts are designed with periodization in mind, to the best of my knowledge (recommended cycling is 3 days on, one day off, supplemented by whatever specific sport training in which you also partake.) I believe its recommended to take a week off every 12 weeks as well, but everyone tailors CF to suit their goals/needs --- par of the reason CF itself is broader and more general (and therefore, a perfect compliment to martial arts training).

    5) Fitness is a nebulous term, but I think Crossfit defines it fairly well in their terms. Remember, their methods are designed to be the foundation to whatever sport or activity in which you partake. Think of it in complementary terms, not necessarily a total replacement.

    6) I've ponied up plenty of links and places to get more info. If you have some for me to look at, pony them up yourself. Better yet, tells us what makes you so qualified, and why such and such is crap. Time for you to man up some info.

    I'm more than happy to read the latest info on exercise science and studies. Most of what I do and say is supported by such, but I readily admit I can't call it all up shooting from the hip at work or in front of my TV. Crossfit.com is a good place to start, as are their message boards. Post a specific question there and someone can likely answer it for you.

    Otherwise, shut the hell up. You've yet to offer any concrete info or evidence, having purely adopted a trollish "crossfit sucks" stance. I don't care if you don't like Crossfit -- I find your bullheaded adheranceto whatever it is YOU like to do for work outs (which you haven't even bothered to tell us about yet) strange. I like to learn about all kinds of different strategies and workouts -- I like Crossfit the best, but I readily add other elements from other programs (like gymnastics-style strength training, which is also awesomely hard and amazingly good for strength training.)

    -daGorilla
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