Tai Chi

[I aint punchy!?]

If you're not sparring then I suggest you go elsewhere. No point learning any style of fighting that doesnot involve sparring. You'd be better off doing Tai-Bo.

[Matt Stone]

Matt Stone - Wow, where did you learn to interpret things?...

I don't know, endless reading of legal briefs, attorney/client correspondence, handwritten documents provided by the uneducated family members of accused soldiers... English, being my native language, is something I continue to study and develop skill with. I take writing in a coherent, cohesive, easily understood manner quite seriously, especially with the inability of electronic communication to satisfactorily convey tone...

Yes, I speak authoritatively on the fact that Tai Chi is not ONLY a series of very slow movements. I know this because we're doing Tai Chi right now, and it's not slow.

I'm studying grappling right now, but I wouldn't deign to speak authoritatively on it simply because I'm studying it. Studying a thing, and knowing it broadly enough to speak as an authority on the subject, are quite different...

I've studied Yiliquan, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan and Baguazhang since 1985. I don't disagree that Taijiquan training includes training other than the slow-motion forms. However, the implication you made upthread was that "real" Taijiquan didn't train in slow-motion at all, which is less than correct. The slow movement of Taiji forms predates the Cultural Revolution's creation of the simplified form(s), not only in Taiji but in Xingyi and Bagua as well. For that matter, slow-motion training is not unheard of nor uncommon in Okinawan and Japanese martial arts, being utilized for the same purposes that Taiji espouses.

That's all I've actually claimed to know for sure. The rest is speculation, and I've even told you its speculatoin.

I hate to debate semantics, but since that is all that this form of communication allows for, it'll have to do. You'll note, after a review of your original post as well as my recent post upthread, that in fact you didn't say the story was speculation, you said "so the story goes." As I said, that could be interpreted differently than intended...

That bit about the story was just to let you know someone told me a story.

Hence the need for coherent, cohesive writing... What you thought you were saying, and what was understood by the reader, were obviously different.

My main arguement is that in its origonal (as in newly created) form, it was very short.

In its original form, Taijiquan was little more than a mixed martial art comprised of local boxing methods combined with those from another tradition... Little in Taijiquan is unique and new; in fact, much of Taijiquan resembles postures and poses from Shaolin boxing styles...

And your original argument was that Taijiquan was not slow, not that it was short in length of form...

And if you want to find the teacher, go to his website IOCMA.com his name is Zhu Bi-Sheng......If you wanna stop by and check it out, you're allowed one class free to try it out, after that you can talk to him about enrolling if you want, or just not show up again if you don't.

I'm not in the market for a teacher; I already have one. I was just inquiring because I thought I knew a fair amount about the content of the local MA community. I'll likely forward his contact info on to our association president, and we may contact your teacher to provide information on local events we become aware of.

My arguement is Tai Chi is not only a slow form. My supporting answer is that I'm doing Tai Chi, and we've graduated beyond slow to fast, which is proof that it is not only a slow form.

Because you and your classes perform it quickly and slowly does not imply that Taijiquan as a whole necessarily does it that way, or that it should do it that way... Your argument's foundation is off the mark. I'm not disagreeing that Taijiquan originally contained quick movement, nor that more "traditional" Taiji as opposed to modern "exercise" Taiji is a combination of training speeds, only that your presumption that because you do it X way, therefore it is all done X way, is flawed. All fish swim. Not all things that swim are fish...

Do people accept this? Well, I don't know. They haven't actually mentioned it much, they've only tried to call my personal integrity into question. Don't ask me why, I honestly don't know, maybe it's just fun.

You come under scrutiny because your initial posts were inexpertly crafted. You began by "defending" Taijiquan and making certain assumptions of your readers that you didn't necessarily have a reason to make. I've never once been criticized for my practice of Taijiquan by any Bullshido members. The only criticism I've seen is for the Tie Chee players who think deep thoughts while walking around aimlessly and slowly to Chinese music while wearing silk PJs in the park...

[Ragar]

Matt Stone - Wow, where did you learn to interpret things?... Okay, one thing at a time now.
Yes, I speak authoritatively on the fact that Tai Chi is not ONLY a series of very slow movements. I know this because we're doing Tai Chi right now, and it's not slow. That's all I've actually claimed to know for sure....

And there's only actually one reason I'm being pissy about this.
My arguement is Tai Chi is not only a slow form. My supporting answer is that I'm doing Tai Chi, and we've graduated beyond slow to fast, which is proof that it is not only a slow form.

Now if you had said these things originally, I don't think people would jump on you, but in fact, you opened the thread with:

Basically, here's my arguement. You don't know what Tai Chi is, so don't bash it.

That really looong, sloooow series of 88 movements you see a the YMCA and available on DVDs and stuff? Not Tai Chi. That series of movements is actually a pre-Tai Chi exercise designed to get your body used to certain movements and make you flexible, and it's supposed to be done fairly quickly too.

Now you are retreating from this stance a little and conceding that it does encompass the slow stuff as well and in fact, you need to learn the slow to move on to the fast.

You may not see a difference, but what you are saying now is a far cry from an out and out declaration that if its slow, it ain't the real thing.

Edit: Okay, so while I was typing, Matt Stone pretty much said the same thing in a more erudite manner.

[Shinigami]

I ain't punchy!? - If you're not listening, I suggest you go elsewhere. No point talking if you don't read everything. If your reading doesn't involve using your brain, you'd be better off majoring in manga study.
We aren't sparring YET, key word YET, because he wants us to know everything before we start going at it. And yes, I've watched a few spars. The master does actually take on a few students, and he'll go barehanded, straightblade, staff, spear, or broadsword. Pretty neat stuff, even though I've only ever seen two or three matches of each.

Matt Stone - I suggest you go back to school. That line easy enough to understand?
Yes, I know my main arguement wasn't about the origonal length of Tai Chi, but it was brought up and I responded to it. Also, people don't usually tend to add in "so the story goes" unless they want the person they're talking to to understand it's a story, and not even their own story.
I wasn't trying to market you a teacher, I was telling you where to find one (something you specifically asked) and letting you know of an opportunity to sit it on a lesson, which was information that you could then pass along to whatever friend showed an interest. If you're going to be active in the legal field, you shouldn't ask for information, then try and burn me for giving it to you. And unnecessary asssumptions? Come off it, this post was made right after reading an entire article about how Tai Chi was a form of Chinese yoga, and most of the people on the thread agreed. THAT was the sort of misinformation I was trying to correct.

But all that aside... where in hell did you find a Xingyi teacher? I've been looking forever, because honestly Xingyi out of a book only takes you so far...

Ragar - This is my mindset. You walk into a judo dojo (or whatever form, judo's just easy to write so I'm using it as an example) and before you start jumping around busting bricks with your head, you stretch out. That stretch is part of your training, because without that stretching out, you'd probably hurt yourself very badly, thefore the stretching is necessary in order to complete your training properly.
In Tai Chi, they have a longer version of that stretch. Anyone who's done it can tell you that your limbs get stretched around quite a bit during the routine (I really hate that one where you squat down on one leg and follow the other leg with your hand... crotch buster, that one) However, like implied before, the stretching routine will not exactly save your life in a fight, because it was never intended to. And when I say the words "Tai Chi" I mean the martial art itself, not the training routine to get in shape for the martial art. Therefore, saying that the slow dance is not Tai Chi in the definition of a fighting art, but is still Tai Chi, is neither directly contradicting anything I've said so far, or false in general.

[fanatical]

Choosing Judo for an example of jumping around and breaking bricks has to be the worst choice I have ever seen. No matter how easy it is to write.

[Shinigami]

Judo = four letters to me at the moment and not much else, and I specifically picked jumping around and breaking bricks with your head to show I was joking/being sarcastic.

So now I'm going to let you bitch.

Soulcalibur

Magic powers

Winning

There, now you can all quote me as training in martial arts by playing Soulcalibur while under the influence of magic powers in order to win.

Seriously though, anyone know a good Xingyi instructor?

[fanatical]

How about doing Judo and dumping this infatuation with CMA? Come to the dark side young padawan

[Ragar]

And when I say the words "Tai Chi" I mean the martial art itself, not the training routine to get in shape for the martial art. Therefore, saying that the slow dance is not Tai Chi in the definition of a fighting art, but is still Tai Chi, is neither directly contradicting anything I've said so far, or false in general.

Never said you contradicted yourself, just that had you taken this later approach at the start rather than the one making absolute statements, you might have saved yourself a lot of grief.

I have never taken tai chi chaun at a school that didn't instruct the martial applications of the slow form. One school even explored the chin na applications. Of course, new students started out doing the slow and then either transitioned into a focus on the martial applications or into a modified form that featured more guarded stances as opposed to the wider circulation friendly postures.

I assume that anyone like me with an interest in the martial aspects as opposed to a purely health and circulation approach would go looking for such a school.

If you read these forums, you will see that pretty much every martial art mentioned here has schools that are teaching people in ways that won't make the students as proficient as the teachers claim they will be.

Few people are running around here saying if you aren't learning it this way, you aren't doing judo. They are saying, if you aren't learning it this way, your teacher sucks and your judo is gonna suck.

[JohnnyCache]

So, again, Shin is a guy who's sparred HOW much?

And knows exactly squat about martial arts except what his Tai Chi teacher ('s interpreter) has filled his head with?

And he has a picture of his chi, guys.

[Locu5]

How can you tell when a zombie is retarded?