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  1. TheManchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 4:39pm


     Style: luk chua bik da

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Additionally, not associating black on black violence with the same causes you do does not equate to "blowing off real life experiences", or writing off violence as not occuring, Marshal.
  2. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 6:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheManchu
    As a mod, I can tell by your ip address that you actually are eminem.
    Damn you mods and your superpowers!

    Now, will the real White Devil PLEASE stand up?



    My previous post was most directed to HedgeHogey, as he was certainly ignoring statistics about black on black violence with the same dismissive attitudes that we would expect around anecdotal bullshido stories.

    But since you raise the point, i'll field it: I don't blame all of this violence on issues of contemporary black identity. There are many factors - Osiris cited poverty, which is undeniable. We could also talk about drugs - I feel strongly that the crack epidemic would not have evolved the way it did without collusion from the CIA's cocaine connections, for example.

    One of my points was that a potentially destructive aspect of 'black indentity' was a celebration/glorification of an outlaw image. Osiris admitted that, in light of the high numbers of black on black violence, that this side of ganster chic could be destructive, but, in his words "only when coupled with poverty".

    And this is one of my central points: we are confortable talking about big picture societal problems, but not personal issues where individuals might take some initiative and make better choices.

    No indivdual is in a position to 'choose' for poverty to not affflict their community.

    Any given individual CAN choose who they respect and emulate.



    HedgeHogey is quite brave and couragous flaming me about the 'white man's burden", but could he bring a similiar level of confrontation and honest reflection to a young brother who doesn't want to study or be respectful towards his teachers? I'm doubtful, but please, Hedge, prove me wrong.

    Likewise, you probably feel comfortable talking about the role of poverty in these issues, but are you able to question what embracing an iconoclastic and rebellious persona might do to your ability to get ahead? Again, i'm doubtful.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  3. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 6:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    This isn't fucking 8 mile. Class concerns do not always trump race concerns, and you can't act as if your white privilege means nothing.
    If anyone could act that way, it would be me, having grown up in SE DC, having a father who died of aids when I was 5, witnessing the usual overhyped "violence" (but also a healthy dose of closeknitness that's lacking in the suburbs).
    With apologies to Freud: Project Much?

    I have NEVER said that 'WP' doesn't exist or that it doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    Yet, because of my own white privilege, I am alive today, and a black kid who made the same exact choices as me would probably not be.
    You are obviously in your comfort zone discussing this issue of WP. I see nothing in your posts to suggest that you might feel as ballsy discussing ways to help those kids actually MAKE BETTER CHOICES.

    Again, 'white privelege' is, by definition, something that people need to 'see' and will generally be conceptually blind to. Glad you are committed to raising awareness, and if you can pull your head out of your ass for a minute I'd love to discuss it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    You have no credibility here, Honkey McGillicuddy, and no number of SAW A BJJ BROWN GET STOMPED BY MULTIPLES type stories will change that.
    One time, at Wing Chun Camp, I heard that black people in america might have it tough.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
    Last edited by Zendetta; 11/09/2005 10:00pm at .
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  4. TheManchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 5:51pm


     Style: luk chua bik da

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    Damn you mods and your superpowers!

    Now, will the real White Devil PLEASE stand up?



    My previous post was most directed to HedgeHogey, as he was certainly ignoring statistics about black on black violence with the same dismissive attitudes that we would expect around anecdotal bullshido stories.

    But since you raise the point, i'll field it: I don't blame all of this violence on issues of contemporary black identity. There are many factors - Osiris cited poverty, which is undeniable. We could also talk about drugs - I feel strongly that the crack epidemic would not have evolved the way it did without collusion from the CIA's cocaine connections, for example.

    One of my points was that a potentially destructive aspect of 'black indentity' was a celebration/glorification of an outlaw image. Osiris admitted that, in light of the high numbers of black on black violence, that this side of ganster chic could be destructive, but, in his words "only when coupled with poverty".

    And this is one of my central points: we are confortable talking about big picture societal problems, but not personal issues where individuals might take some initiative and make better choices.

    No indivdual is in a position to 'choose' for poverty to not affflict their community.

    Any given individual CAN choose who they respect and emulate.



    HedgeHogey is quite brave and couragous flaming me about the 'white man's burden", but could he bring a similiar level of confrontation and honest reflection to a young brother who doesn't want to study or be respectful towards his teachers? I'm doubtful, but please, Hedge, prove me wrong.

    Likewise, you probably feel comfortable talking about the role of poverty in these issues, but are you able to question what embracing an iconoclastic and rebellious persona might do to your ability to get ahead? Again, i'm doubtful.

    While I'm not sure if this end part is addressed to me, I hadn't brought up overty per se, but you may be talking to Hedgehogey, this does not change the fact that your post is much better than your music.
  5. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 6:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It was addressed to you. I made another post as a surgical strike on HH.

    You havn't mentioned poverty specifically, but i'm sure you will agree that it is implicated in many discussions of black america's challenges.

    I cite it specifically as an example of one of those issues that are safe and comfortable to discuss, whereas frank discussions of various self destructive aspects of contemporary black indentity are verboten.

    Noone gets riled when you implicate poverty, but it is a big-picture issue outside of the scope of influence of any one individual.

    Whereas broaching the subject of simple individual choices that might help one escape poverty (getting an decent education, NOT dressing/acting/emulating gangsters, not getting knocked up as a teenager, not carrying a gun) are the subject of such burning controversy as to produce a multi-page hugfest along the lines of "You're a racist by default, Honkey" or "What about The GodFather and the Italian Americans?"


    And you know you love my Raptacular Rhymes, Hater.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  6. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 10:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Essentially, the issue is thus: You are not black.

    Therefore, your opinion on black on black violence does not matter, Zendetta.

    You think you understand white privilege, but you fail to grasp that for you to even have an opinion on this subject reeks of it.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  7. Bluto Blutarsky is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 3:26pm


     Style: Mostly drinking. E-chaun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the only "true" whites would be those with pure pale white skin and red hair and freckles.
    Otherwise known as Gingers.

    These gingers are a threat to life, they are souless freaks that force crap like Annie and Carrot top on good decent society.

    Gingers must be exterminated in a pit of hot lava at an airport hilton.
  8. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 3:43pm


     Style: CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehogey
    Essentially, the issue is thus: You are not black.

    Therefore, your opinion on black on black violence does not matter, Zendetta.
    The more I read this, the more it offends me.

    "Black on Black" violence is person on person violence. We are all members of the same society. To turn a blind eye to it would be immoral. That's like some wife-beater telling people to "leave us alone, it's family business."

    Perhaps this is how some people justified ignoring Hitler's atrocities -- it was German on German violence.

    Are we supposed to just ignore it? Pretend it doesn't exist or isn't happening? Just mind our own business? If someone says "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand." Am I supposed to just leave it at that, say "OK", and go on with my merry life?
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  9. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 6:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    If someone says "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand." Am I supposed to just leave it at that, say "OK", and go on with my merry life?
    Yes. Especially if that person is black.


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
  10. AthleticGirl is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/11/2005 6:22pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Girl

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If people didn't look at things by color of skin, we wouldn't have the problem. Violence is violence.

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