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  1. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 1:59pm


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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, that is something I don't understand. Why is there such a thing as "black identity"? I have never heard of "white identity".

    Being white isn't something I use for my "identity". It's not something I take pride in or am embarassed about. It is something that just is. I don't identify with my skin color anymore than my eye color or hair color. It's a descriptor that may help to identify me in a crowd. "See that guy over there?" "Him", "no, the white guy." It says nothing about who I am.

    Perhaps it is because of the history behind race that forced a "black identity" first as a method of segregation and control.

    Is it possible that Martin Luther King Junior's dream of a colorblind society could be impeded by a continuance of a "black identity"?

    Add: Maybe that is a big problem with race relations. Whites never have to think about or consider their race (in my experience) while blacks are reminded often that they're black. First by whites, now by some whites and by Jesse Jackson, Kweisi Mfume, and anyone else who says a person isn't a "true black" if they do something horrible, like become a Republican.
    Last edited by Leodom; 11/02/2005 2:04pm at .
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  2. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:08pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is a legitimate concept of ethnic identity. I think there is a legitimate idea of a Black American identity just like there is a Jewish American, Italian American, etc.

    The problem is who gets to define it. :p
  3. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:21pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_steve
    There is a legitimate concept of ethnic identity. I think there is a legitimate idea of a Black American identity just like there is a Jewish American, Italian American, etc.

    The problem is who gets to define it. :p
    You may be right. This may be the crux of the issue. Who defines "race identity". I am sure that the two teenage nazi girls of "Prussian Blue" would probably say I'm not "truly white" and accuse me of being a "sell out" for the white race.

    Now in regards to Hedgehogeys posts about terminology, is there a "white" analagous term for "Uncle Tom"? If there is not, does that say anything about racism?
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  4. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:30pm

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by samurai_steve
    There is a legitimate concept of ethnic identity. I think there is a legitimate idea of a Black American identity just like there is a Jewish American, Italian American, etc.

    The problem is who gets to define it. :p
    I agree with you that there is ethnic idenity. But it's the ethnic group that ultimately defines their own identity through their actions. I think that the modern American Black identity has been largely formed by victimologists such as Jackson and this video speaker who refuse to move forward and take responsibility for more of their problems.
  5. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:36pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    I agree with you that there is ethnic idenity. But it's the ethnic group that ultimately defines their own identity through their actions. I think that the modern American Black identity has been largely formed by victimologists such as Jackson and this video speaker who refuse to move forward and take responsibility for more of their problems.
    This kind of statement only adds to the problem, and shows why any "ethnic identity" is a huge drawback to any resolution of racial issues.

    I know several African-Americans who don't want to be identified with Louis Farrakhan any more than I want to be identified with David Duke. To identify members of a race with other members who hold fringe views is to make a horrible stereotype. Any attempt at ethnic identity opens up great opportunities for stereotyping. This should be avoided.

    Individuals have actions, ethnic "groups" do not.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  6. TheManchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:38pm


     Style: luk chua bik da

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    You may be right. This may be the crux of the issue. Who defines "race identity". I am sure that the two teenage nazi girls of "Prussian Blue" would probably say I'm not "truly white" and accuse me of being a "sell out" for the white race.

    Now in regards to Hedgehogeys posts about terminology, is there a "white" analagous term for "Uncle Tom"? If there is not, does that say anything about racism?
    White people criticise other white people for "acting black" all the time. They seem to think of such whites as "acting black" in order to endear onesself to the culture in much the same way uncle Tom's "acted white" in order to endear onesself to whites with economic and political power over them. Even when those whites who "act black" come from mixed families or areas where that is the subculture, they are looked at by many whites as silly people "acting black". You have seen this before, correct?
  7. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:44pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Individuals have actions, ethnic "groups" do not.
    I agree, but it's the actions of those individuals that paints the image for the entire group to outside observers. When you have the vocal majority of a group embracing self-destructive habits you end up in a situation where everyone in that group gets a bad rap.

    I guess the point I'm getting to in all of this is that the American black culture is horribly broken. The leaders and public figures seem to embrace and defend a lot of behaviors and actions that are dysfunctional. They then act surprised when a person not from their background assumes they're dysfunctional as a result. It's a tough hole to climb out of if you're not part of the victimology scene.
  8. Camus is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:46pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whenever I feel the need to celebrate my white identity I call over a couple gentlemen and we play bridge whilst discussing Percy's campaign in Algiers or Archibald's latest audience with the maharajah, whilst my Chinese manservant attends to the tea and broiled game salvaged from the hunt.

    Just kidding.

    Actually we bust out the accordians and wail a lively tune whilst the beer is passed around and the wenches are danced with. Drunken contests of strength ensue and women are manhandled. Afterwards, we stagger home drunk and piss on lengths of fence. Lederhosen is a must.

    Nah, still joking.

    Usually I'll boil up some heavy beef stew with potatoes laced with mayonaise. We'll take our vodka straight or with mineral water and take a pickle after each shot. Afterwards, whilst still inebriated, we'll done our fur jackets and ride our dogsleds around the vast tundra hunting wolves.

    Get my point?

    There is no 'white identity' when you consider the breadth of cultures whose people are considered racially 'white'.

    Really, to me it's a stupid label. I also assume that it's disingenuous to talk about something such as 'black identity', when you have North African Muslims, American Muslims, Ethiopian Christians, Sub-Saharan Africans, then African-Americans, etc. etc, all of whom are quite distinct from one another. However, given that Iím not black, I can't realistically debunk a concept I can never understand.

    But what I can say is that the idea of a unified 'white identity' is ridiculous.
  9. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:52pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dammit! "You must spread some reputation around...."

    By Jove Camus, I think you've got it.

    Culture, and therefore cultural identity, is too varied to be defined by skin color. Cultural identity makes much more sense than racial identity.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  10. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/02/2005 2:57pm


     Style: CMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheManchu
    White people criticise other white people for "acting black" all the time. They seem to think of such whites as "acting black" in order to endear onesself to the culture in much the same way uncle Tom's "acted white" in order to endear onesself to whites with economic and political power over them. Even when those whites who "act black" come from mixed families or areas where that is the subculture, they are looked at by many whites as silly people "acting black". You have seen this before, correct?
    If you're talking about people who wear baggy pants, gawdy jewelry, purposefully speak poor english, and talk about "capping" people, I think they all look silly, regardless of skin color.

    I get your point. Suburban white kids trying to fit into the hip-hop culture are criticized. Would "Wigger" be the white analogy to "Uncle Tom"?
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
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