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View Poll Results: Is the Bible literal of not?

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46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, spilling even grass seed is bad

    6 13.04%
  • No, aside from God birthin Jesus without need for the nasty, it's broad lessons and such

    40 86.96%
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  1. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:09am


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    Maybe the Bible got it in reverse? Maybe WOMAN was created in God's image? :P

    PL
    Genesis 2 : 27 " God made them in his likeness male ane female
    he created them.


    As a believers we hold that God still speaks Hebrew 1:1-2
  2. Beatdown Richie is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:13am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You bring a good point. I appreciate the ceromoney and calmness it gives me (not your point, my belief).
    Are the ceremony and calmness tied to the actual beliefs of that religion? If it is a certain state of mind you're looking for, maybe there are other ways of achieving it (meditation, yoga etc) that don't ask you to believe in an old man in the sky or the eternal cycle of rebirth or the blood of the Savior or whathaveyou?

    I was talking about religion as a belief system, a way of making sense of the world and organising information. Of course there are other aspects (and possibly benefits) to religion as well - it's a kind of bundle deal: metaphysics, ethics, history, mythology, spirituality, all in a convenient, book-size package. I argue for unwrapping the package and sorting through the content to see what's useful and what's not, and if the aspects depend on each other at all. If people have a need for ceremony, then let's think about non-bullshit ways for having ceremony.
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  3. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Do any christians want to coment on the virgin birth of christ? Or have we scared you all off?

    Allow me:

    Faith is based on Faith, on belief, right or wrong, it requires NO proof.
    Wither YOU believe or not, wither its sounds absurd or not, doesn't mean its not true.
    Faith.
  4. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:25am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    Allow me:

    Faith is based on Faith, on belief, right or wrong, it requires NO proof.
    Wither YOU believe or not, wither its sounds absurd or not, doesn't mean its not true.
    Faith.
    Cool, good answer. Does this mean you dismiss the bickering about what the bible origonally ment as irrelivant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  5. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by garbanzobean
    Some serious questions here: What makes Christianity "right" and other religions "wrong?" How do you know that Christianity is correct and Hinduism, Islam, Janism, Pureland Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, Zoroastronism, Judaism, Pagan religions, etc. are all wrong? Is it just a matter of faith? Why is your faith better than that of a person worshipping a different god/goddess?

    For me, the logical answer here is that you are born into a culture and tend to adopt the religious principles of family or those you respect and wish to emulate. Answer me this: If you were born into a totally different culture, do you HONESTLY believe that you would find Christianity? Or would you dismiss it as silly, like many Christians I know tend to think about "wacky" other religions? If God is so ubiquitous, why does a mountain chain, a rain forest or an ocean keep entire populations from ever hearing of his existence? Are you REALLY that special that he would speak to your culture and not others?

    I have always had issues with "the only one" or the "right one".

    IF we take Jesus's literally when he says " I am the way, the only way, and none shall enter the kingdom of Heaven except through me", then it can be argued that only followers of Jesus's teachings will be "saved".
    BUT, did Jesus say "only those who BELIEVE in me..." ?
    NO.
    Did he say "only christians.." ?
    No, the term didn't even exsist.
    Did he say " only those that believe me to be the messiah.." ?
    NO.

    Perhaps he meant that only those the follow his teachings of love, tolerance and accepteance, wil be saved.
    Perhaps, like the Non-Jew who believed in him WITHOUT even being Jewish or seeing his miracles, people who have love and faith in God in their hearts, will be saved.
    Perhaps anyone of any religious demonination what lives by the teaching of Jesus, the teachings of Love, compassion, tolerance, etc. will be saved.
    Perhaps.

    We many never know, but one thing we do know, IF there is a GOD and he is ominpotent and omnicient, it doesn't matter WHAT you believe in, he KNOWS what is truly in your heart.
  6. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Cool, good answer. Does this mean you dismiss the bickering about what the bible origonally ment as irrelivant?

    As a student of the bible, of history and of science I say this:
    Faith is just that.
    You can't dismiss a whole book because of SOME bullshit.
    You can't except a whole book as accurate because of SOME facts.
    We must, when it comes to something as old as the bible, understand WHY it was written, WHO it was written for and by WHOM it was written.

    Should it be taken literal?
    Only the literal parts.
  7. Beatdown Richie is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:38am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Faith is based on Faith, on belief, right or wrong, it requires NO proof.
    Wither YOU believe or not, wither its sounds absurd or not, doesn't mean its not true.
    Faith.
    "Faith" is a horrible concept. People with religious "faith" are PROUD of believing absurd propositions that are in complete contradiction to everything they see with their own eyes - and other people admire them for it. [sadly shakes head]

    From a memetic perspective, of course, "Faith" makes perfect sense. If you have a belief system that doesn't make sense, it will be much more stable if you seal it off with a belief that "believing nonsensical things that belong to this system makes you a better person - asking for proof makes you a worse person". Once the believer has swallowed that, it's all downhill.
    There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
  8. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:40am


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Do any christians want to coment on the virgin birth of christ? Or have we scared you all off?
    Sure I would love to coment .First the word fulfill used by Matthew means take ahead or finish {plerothe in Greek}. The passage in Isaiah 7 :13- 16 was first fulfill in the abandonment of the land of the two Kings. This then became a type for the Messiah. Immanuel is not a just name it is a title of the messianic role ,"God with us" and that role is what Matthew is saying is taken ahead with the birth of Jesus.
    Of note Luke does not use the passage in relating the virgin birth , he just write the about it.
  9. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:45am

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     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    Should it be taken literal?
    Only the literal parts.
    But there is some debate over what the literal parts were intended to mean. In many respects belief in the virgin birth is not supported by the original text of the bible. It's just a possibility that the text might mean that. Confirmation of this belief, that it is the right thing to believe, comes mainly from the church and not the writtings of the gosple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  10. Jekyll is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 6:47am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rexkwon
    Sure I would love to coment .First the word fulfill used by Matthew means take ahead or finish {plerothe in Greek}. The passage in Isaiah 7 :13- 16 was first fulfill in the abandonment of the land of the two Kings. This then became a type for the Messiah. Immanuel is not a just name it is a title of the messianic role ,"God with us" and that role is what Matthew is saying is taken ahead with the birth of Jesus.
    Of note Luke does not use the passage in relating the virgin birth , he just write the about it.
    And how about the translation issues? That it is possible that the bible doesn't make reference to a virgin birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
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