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  1. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
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    20,888

    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 8:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    My schedule is a little messy. Weights on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, cardio on Wednesday and Friday, and MA on Sunday and Monday. There is really no other way to manipulate my schedule. When I added the MA training, it put me over the edge. It seems my only way to continue is to reduce the weights.


    But maybe a few times a month I might still go heavy. It is difficult to imagine giving it up.

    Not getting enough cardio from your MA ?
    Why not increase your MA and eliminate your cardio days?
  2. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
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    1,660

    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 9:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    My schedule is a little messy. Weights on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, cardio on Wednesday and Friday, and MA on Sunday and Monday. There is really no other way to manipulate my schedule. When I added the MA training, it put me over the edge. It seems my only way to continue is to reduce the weights.


    But maybe a few times a month I might still go heavy. It is difficult to imagine giving it up.
    I'm not saying that this is what you should do, but if it were me, I'd lift full body twice a week. I'd Double up on Monday (MA followed by weights) to allow 2 full days of recovery (Tues. and Wed.), then weights again on thursday, giving you two full days of recovery before your next MA. The other option would be to lift Mon., Wed. and Fri. with whatever split you like. Either of those two options should allow you to train MA with full intensity.
  3. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 10:33am


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    There's a very good book that I go by for this stuff . . .

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...98233?v=glance

    It is designed specifically for developing functional strength in athletes and is periodized according to an annual training cycle, with compounded power exercises saved for the period before your competitive season starts and a maintanance-type phase utilized during that season.

    I think that to fully take advantage of it, one likely has to periodize [the usage of muscular power in] their MA workouts to correspond inversely to the phases in the book.

    I'm just coming off a solid four months of doing little but work (not something that I'm willing to do again), and do not feel myself to be in the best shape to comment on things but . . . When I was sticking to this, my impression was that a typical MA regimen on top of things was asking a lot, and I frequently tried to find a middle-ground by working out only three times a week (the number of times vary per period) instead of say, five.

    For the purposes of full recovery, I also wonder about formatting my MA workouts according to major muscle groups used and once again setting them up to inversely correspond (this time on a weekly basis) with my strength training days. For example, if skipping is part of your workout, space it as far away from possible as your leg days. For general rolling/sparring/mixing it up, however, things are never that cut and dry and I don't think that there's an easy solution other than to relax and minimize muscular effort (like you're bloody well supposed to anyway).

    The truth is you're going to have to periodize your ying and your yang to peak at different times if you want to hit them both without risking serious injury.


    The book that I was looking at suggest a whole body workout three times a week during "in season". But I do like what you said about the relationship between body part and focus of the MA training. I stumbled upon that moons ago, but the problem I started to face was that 4 days of recovery was not enough between weights and MA training. So I realized I had two options: modify my workouts, or improve my nutritional status to improve my recovery. I decided to do both (for now).


    I might need to check into that book. Thanks.
  4. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Oct 2004
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    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 11:03am


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The MA times are Sunday morning at 8:30 - 10:00AM, and Monday night from 6:30 - 8:00PM. They are set in stone because those are the times that the Bastyr University Martial Arts Lab meets in the movement room (mirrors and kinda padded floor). For Seattle folk, once get things running more smoothly we will invite ya'll to stop by.

    Two of the three weight sessions are with my girlfriend. I wanted all three but with work, school, clinic, the avaliablity of the gym's childcare, and our son himself, our schedules don't overlap very well. So we lift together Thursday morning from 10:00 - 11:00 AM, and Sunday morning from 11:00 - 12:00. The Sunday workout is especially difficult since it is an hour after my MA training. My third lifting session is Tuesday at 2:00 - 3:00 PM, tucked between a dispensary shift and my personal training job.

    As for cardio, I could eliminate them but I am keeping them for two main reasons. First off, I use them to keep my asthma at bay. Whenever I remove cardio from the rest of the week, my asthma always tends to get worse. If MA is my only cardio, then I only have Sunday and Monday. The extra days really help move the "stagnant qi and phlegm of the Lung". True story.

    The second reason is so that my son gets more exposure to other kids. His only time to observe other children (and flirt with the ladies) is at childcare at the gym. He enjoys it immensely.



    Finally, I have definite symptoms when I overtrain. I am familiar with them. In addition to the elevated BP (which is a good thing to measure because it makes my gf practice more), I also get malar flush (or possibly a red face), irritability, night sweats, and difficulty sleeping. I have a nice formula that I came up with for it. I just need another formula to remind me to take it (read: I have compliance issues).





    But for those of you that do MA and train with weights: how do you keep from overtraining? Do you go 100% in MA and weights or do you cycle it up and down? If you go 100% all the time, do you use supplements, nutrition, and/or creative recovery means [drugs], or are you just a genetic freak?
  5. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
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    1,660

    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 11:30am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    The MA times are Sunday morning at 8:30 - 10:00AM, and Monday night from 6:30 - 8:00PM. They are set in stone because those are the times that the Bastyr University Martial Arts Lab meets in the movement room (mirrors and kinda padded floor). For Seattle folk, once get things running more smoothly we will invite ya'll to stop by.

    Two of the three weight sessions are with my girlfriend. I wanted all three but with work, school, clinic, the avaliablity of the gym's childcare, and our son himself, our schedules don't overlap very well. So we lift together Thursday morning from 10:00 - 11:00 AM, and Sunday morning from 11:00 - 12:00. The Sunday workout is especially difficult since it is an hour after my MA training. My third lifting session is Tuesday at 2:00 - 3:00 PM, tucked between a dispensary shift and my personal training job.

    As for cardio, I could eliminate them but I am keeping them for two main reasons. First off, I use them to keep my asthma at bay. Whenever I remove cardio from the rest of the week, my asthma always tends to get worse. If MA is my only cardio, then I only have Sunday and Monday. The extra days really help move the "stagnant qi and phlegm of the Lung". True story.

    The second reason is so that my son gets more exposure to other kids. His only time to observe other children (and flirt with the ladies) is at childcare at the gym. He enjoys it immensely.



    Finally, I have definite symptoms when I overtrain. I am familiar with them. In addition to the elevated BP (which is a good thing to measure because it makes my gf practice more), I also get malar flush (or possibly a red face), irritability, night sweats, and difficulty sleeping. I have a nice formula that I came up with for it. I just need another formula to remind me to take it (read: I have compliance issues).





    But for those of you that do MA and train with weights: how do you keep from overtraining? Do you go 100% in MA and weights or do you cycle it up and down? If you go 100% all the time, do you use supplements, nutrition, and/or creative recovery means [drugs], or are you just a genetic freak?
    You're in a tough spot b/c everything is so locked in, so you can't really juggle things around, but rather will have to adjust the intensity. I've always trained with full intensity in MA, weights, and endurance sports at the same time (more or less), but the difference is that the only thing that was locked in was MA, I was always able to juggle the other stuff around in such a way so as to maximize my recover time. I've also always done stuff on recovery days that that would not only give me a workout, but would also expedite recovery, such as swimming.

    I wish I had some good advice to give you, but I think you're just going to have to spend some significant time figuring out what sort of intensity adjustments will make it work for you. I don't think that's going to be an easy thing to figure out either.

    I agree with you though that diet and sleep are hugely important, especially the older we get.
  6. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
    Posts
    1,622

    Posted On:
    11/09/2005 3:03pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Update.


    Since it was tedious attempting to determine how to calculate the different cycles, and since it was just painful to not lift at my full capacity, I cancelled my periodization program.





    Well, the major reason is because my gym is finally completely open. I nearly forgot that this was going to happen since they were three months late. Anyway, today was the first time I got to train in the full gym. I put up 110lb dumbells on incline chest just to see if I could. I put 410lbs on the decline hammer chest press machine to see if I could. I quickly realized that attempting to lift at 80% of my capacity doing a full body workout 3 times a week was going to be impossible.


    Trying to tell me to do just a few exercises at sub-maximal effort is like handing an alcoholic a couple of twenties and telling them they can go into the liquor store BUT then can only buy a six-pack of Busch Light.
  7. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,888

    Posted On:
    11/10/2005 7:58am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    Update.


    Since it was tedious attempting to determine how to calculate the different cycles, and since it was just painful to not lift at my full capacity, I cancelled my periodization program.





    Well, the major reason is because my gym is finally completely open. I nearly forgot that this was going to happen since they were three months late. Anyway, today was the first time I got to train in the full gym. I put up 110lb dumbells on incline chest just to see if I could. I put 410lbs on the decline hammer chest press machine to see if I could. I quickly realized that attempting to lift at 80% of my capacity doing a full body workout 3 times a week was going to be impossible.


    Trying to tell me to do just a few exercises at sub-maximal effort is like handing an alcoholic a couple of twenties and telling them they can go into the liquor store BUT then can only buy a six-pack of Busch Light.

    Welcome to the real world.
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