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  1. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 3:33pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Periodization 2.0

    A search of the last thread on periodization yielded...yeah. Search for it and enjoy it if you wish.






    A couple of months ago I switched my rep scheme from 10/8/6/4 to 6/4/2 on most exercises to focus on strength. It worked. I am throwing weights around that makes my nipples hard just thinking about. The problem is I also started training in MMA again about a month ago and as I mentioned on a different thread, I almost seriously injured my knee. I did heavy leg presses and when I trained MA 4 days later, it was still weak and I almost did some serious damage. So then I was faced with a quandary: continue with the intense weights and risk injury, or take it easy in the gym (gasp) so I can focus on MA.

    So I found a book that I bought many moons ago on periodization: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books




    I never gave it more then a cursory once-over until a few days ago. It seems like it might be an interesting route to try if one trains in the typical sport with actual seasons. But since I don't have a competition coming up, it was a little difficult to design a macrocycle.


    But I decided that my weight training for the next two months will focus on compound exercises but with less effort. So if my workout calls for a set of 8 on seated db shoulder press, instead of using a weight that I can only do for 8 reps, like 95 lb dbs, I'll use 85s instead.



    Yes it will suck doing less than maximum effort, but my goal is to focus on improving my MA skills. This requires my body to have recovered from weights by the time that I train MA, so it seems like this will be a necessary evil. Not giving it all in the gym sucks, but not as much as getting injured at MMA class.





    Does anybody have any experience with periodization (in relation to MA, not bodybuilding), or any valid research on the topic?
  2. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 5:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you can figure it out bro, let me know.
    :eusa_thin
  3. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 6:50pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    If you can figure it out bro, let me know.
    :eusa_thin

    That's kinda what I figured. Right now I'm thinking three cycles a year but...why...how...when?
  4. Apostol is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 9:25pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Certain training phases call for lighter intensity (but this does not mean to slack off and stop working out).

    However, if you stop all progressive resistance you will not make any gains. Do the same amount of work, and you will get the same result. Now granted, you can't be training within 20% of your max all the time. This is where higher rep ranges and NOT going to failure really helps. Typically, a training cycle can last 4-6 weeks.
  5. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 9:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can't you just rest more in between lifting? Or, if say you normally lifted twice a week hardcore, couldn't you lift once hardcore and once like the way you want to now, to let your body rest more, but not get weaker?

    PL
  6. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/24/2005 10:29pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a very good book that I go by for this stuff . . .

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...98233?v=glance

    It is designed specifically for developing functional strength in athletes and is periodized according to an annual training cycle, with compounded power exercises saved for the period before your competitive season starts and a maintanance-type phase utilized during that season.

    I think that to fully take advantage of it, one likely has to periodize [the usage of muscular power in] their MA workouts to correspond inversely to the phases in the book.

    I'm just coming off a solid four months of doing little but work (not something that I'm willing to do again), and do not feel myself to be in the best shape to comment on things but . . . When I was sticking to this, my impression was that a typical MA regimen on top of things was asking a lot, and I frequently tried to find a middle-ground by working out only three times a week (the number of times vary per period) instead of say, five.

    For the purposes of full recovery, I also wonder about formatting my MA workouts according to major muscle groups used and once again setting them up to inversely correspond (this time on a weekly basis) with my strength training days. For example, if skipping is part of your workout, space it as far away from possible as your leg days. For general rolling/sparring/mixing it up, however, things are never that cut and dry and I don't think that there's an easy solution other than to relax and minimize muscular effort (like you're bloody well supposed to anyway).

    The truth is you're going to have to periodize your ying and your yang to peak at different times if you want to hit them both without risking serious injury.
  7. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 6:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Periodization is a great tool for any athlete.
    BUT, when you take out the "competition phase" things get a little muddy.
    You have to realsie that, IF MA is your priority and ST is done to supplement it, then you have to train a certain way.
    IF you are periodizing for Max Strength yields, then you have to train a certain way.
    IF you are cycling for a competition, you have to train a certain way.
    Etc, etc.

    You need to first, get healty, that is top priority.
    Second, make a consious decsion on WHAT you are ST for.
    Third, you MUST take into account your workload ( 9 to 5 job).

    Be wary of anyone that tells you do do this and that routine without asking you lots of specific questions about why and when and how.

    Pro athelets are NOT the people to emulate, theie JOB is to train, the take perfomance enhancing supplements, have enough sleep, private massues, etc, etc.

    You need to realise, before anything else, what are your realistic goals, you need to come to grips with limitations, but physicall and time wise.

    But again, first thing is first, youmust get health BEFORE you embark on any dedicated physicall training.
  8. loki09789 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 9:25am


     Style: Escrima/Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    Periodization is a great tool for any athlete.
    BUT, when you take out the "competition phase" things get a little muddy.
    You have to realsie that, IF MA is your priority and ST is done to supplement it, then you have to train a certain way.
    IF you are periodizing for Max Strength yields, then you have to train a certain way.
    IF you are cycling for a competition, you have to train a certain way.
    Etc, etc.

    You need to first, get healty, that is top priority.
    Second, make a consious decsion on WHAT you are ST for.
    Third, you MUST take into account your workload ( 9 to 5 job).

    Be wary of anyone that tells you do do this and that routine without asking you lots of specific questions about why and when and how.

    Pro athelets are NOT the people to emulate, theie JOB is to train, the take perfomance enhancing supplements, have enough sleep, private massues, etc, etc.

    You need to realise, before anything else, what are your realistic goals, you need to come to grips with limitations, but physicall and time wise.

    But again, first thing is first, youmust get health BEFORE you embark on any dedicated physicall training.
    Good stuff Ronin,

    I would add to that to talk to a Trainer/Chiropractor/PT that works with sports or some other performance based group (dancers for example) on the issue of goals, periodization length, sequence and such.

    You have to be clear on what you are doing and why, as Ronin pointed out, but it is really important that you also know what are the indicators that you are ready to change phases of training.

    Examples.

    How many reps should you be able to do on Bench for Absolute strength development before you increase the load? How much should you increase the load?

    How should you sequence your exercises (ground up, center out or some other general guideline) so that your not working against a specific goal?

    My Chiro use to be in Minn. and worked with the Minn. Wild as part of his Chiro training. He really helps me with suggestions and how to clarify goals and KEEP IT REALISTIC as Ronin said considering that I am not as young, fit or genetically gifted as a Pro Hockey player or other sports Pros.
  9. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 1:45am


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    Can't you just rest more in between lifting? Or, if say you normally lifted twice a week hardcore, couldn't you lift once hardcore and once like the way you want to now, to let your body rest more, but not get weaker?

    PL

    My schedule is a little messy. Weights on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, cardio on Wednesday and Friday, and MA on Sunday and Monday. There is really no other way to manipulate my schedule. When I added the MA training, it put me over the edge. It seems my only way to continue is to reduce the weights.


    But maybe a few times a month I might still go heavy. It is difficult to imagine giving it up.
  10. loki09789 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2005 8:53am


     Style: Escrima/Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Quikfeet509
    My schedule is a little messy. Weights on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday, cardio on Wednesday and Friday, and MA on Sunday and Monday. There is really no other way to manipulate my schedule. When I added the MA training, it put me over the edge. It seems my only way to continue is to reduce the weights.


    But maybe a few times a month I might still go heavy. It is difficult to imagine giving it up.
    Take one day off of the wt. or cardio, change the split in the program so that you can get it all done in two days. Reduce the number of sets...lots of options.

    Also, check your resting HR/Blood Pressure. If it staying elevated, that is a sign that your body is stressing to recover and your adding stress faster than it can keep up.

    SLOW DOWN, there is nothing wrong with rest. That is when you really get muscle growth and improvement.

    Talk to a doctor, that is the best way if it is that big a deal.
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