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  1. daGorilla is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Seattle, WA area
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    1,043

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 11:03am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FighterJones
    sorry bout the spasticity of my posts.
    I wanna keep my shrugs as too get very strong shoulders, because the more I have strengthed my shoulders the harder i seem to punch, plus it helps for labor work I do.
    No wrist curls? k then but any other substitution for wrist strength?
    pullups? I need em but unfortunately this wieght room has nothing for them.
    thanks for the comments poop loops, i appreciate em.
    BTW, how should I do my curls (Wieght and reps)
    I'd recommend the following in general:

    Dips

    Pull-Ups (work on kipping pull-ups as well as dead hangs, and mix grips)

    Dumbell Snatches and/or Dumbell Swings (like kettlebell swings, but with a dumbell)

    Squat Thrusts (Squat ass to ankles, and thrust two dumbells in a military-press fashion up over your head as you rise, so at the top of the squat you'll have both arms extended to the ceiling)

    Burpees, Bodyweight Squats (high Rep)

    L-sits (Hold yourself in a dip position with your elbows out and shoulders locked, then raise your legs to 90 degrees and hold.)

    Check out www.crossfit.com for more really good info, and videos of lots of different exercises you may or may not be familiar with, including all Olympic style lifts (Clean & Press, for example).

    I'd even go so far as to suggest ditching most isolated exercises like wrist curls, arm curls, and machine work -- there are more efficient ways of working the body. (Again, see aforementioned web site)

    -daGorilla (Crossfit Pimp Daddy)
  2. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    1,776

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 11:09am


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cleans are the be all end all for explosive power, and will do more for your shoulders than shrugs. (Not that you should drop the shrugs.) Before trying cleans, be sure to get some good coaching on technique. You can do them from the floor or from standing, depending on what all you want to work. From the floor, they'll get your glutes, quads, biceps, all of your shoulder, and forearms primarily, but a lot of other muscles come into play as well.

    They can be tough on you elbow, lower back, and tendons in your shoulder if done incorrectly. So, make sure you learn good technique from someone who has experience.
  3. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,660

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 11:14am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender
    DB snatches and clean and presses would be beneficial too. Google them for sites demonstrating the form.
    I agree with that. I think one arm dumbell snatches are the bomb! I also agree with all of DaGorilla's suggestions, except for the fact that Fighter Jones is a complete n00bie. I'm a huge fan of ballistic movements, but personally, I think it's better to gain a strength base, and more importantly a knowledge base first. Fighter jones doesn't even know what muscles are responsible for what movements yet. I would wait a couple of months before throwing any weight around, to be sure I had a good understand and mastery of proper form.
  4. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
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    1,660

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 11:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    Cleans are the be all end all for explosive power, and will do more for your shoulders than shrugs. (Not that you should drop the shrugs.) Before trying cleans, be sure to get some good coaching on technique. You can do them from the floor or from standing, depending on what all you want to work. From the floor, they'll get your glutes, quads, biceps, all of your shoulder, and forearms primarily, but a lot of other muscles come into play as well.

    They can be tough on you elbow, lower back, and tendons in your shoulder if done incorrectly. So, make sure you learn good technique from someone who has experience.
    Yeah, when the time comes, I'd start with hang cleans. Then progress to power cleans. Then actual cleans. Then, ultimately, the clean & jerk. Nothing better, except the snatch, but that's a whole other level.
  5. Honor is offline
    Honor's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Apr 2005
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    Palmdale, CA
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    380

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 4:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: Gnujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would not do cleans without a coach that knows olympic lifts. The moves are VERY specific where you have a very small degree of error. Even if you think you're doing them right a coach can point out tons of flaws. Most people are going to need a lot of time to learn the catch because you need to hold the weight on your shoulders and only use your hands for balance. When I started I wasn't able to do that at all...the weight had to be held by my hands. It took me about a month of doing front squats to build my stabilizer muscles in order to get my elbows parallel to the ground. It also worked some different back muscles that help with proper posture on these lifts as well.
    Legendary Street Fighter
  6. Ender is offline
    Ender's Avatar

    Not Enough Weight

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    239

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 5:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Honor
    I would not do cleans without a coach that knows olympic lifts. The moves are VERY specific where you have a very small degree of error. Even if you think you're doing them right a coach can point out tons of flaws. Most people are going to need a lot of time to learn the catch because you need to hold the weight on your shoulders and only use your hands for balance. When I started I wasn't able to do that at all...the weight had to be held by my hands. It took me about a month of doing front squats to build my stabilizer muscles in order to get my elbows parallel to the ground. It also worked some different back muscles that help with proper posture on these lifts as well.
    I think coaching is essential, but the services of an olympic lifting coach are unnecessary, at least for the clean. The snatch, perhaps, but the rudiments of a clean can be learned fairly quickly. John Davies has an article on the power clean that explains and demonstrates proper technique, as well as some preliminary exercises that can be used to prepare for more complex lifts:
    http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-025-training
    "Even if one's head were to be suddenly cut off, he should be able to perform one more action with certainty."
    -Yamamoto Tsunetomo
  7. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Florida
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    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 7:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender
    I think coaching is essential, but the services of an olympic lifting coach are unnecessary, at least for the clean. The snatch, perhaps, but the rudiments of a clean can be learned fairly quickly. John Davies has an article on the power clean that explains and demonstrates proper technique, as well as some preliminary exercises that can be used to prepare for more complex lifts:
    http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-025-training
    I agree. I advocate coaching in order to learn proper form on every lift. Even the bench will **** up your shoulders big time if done improperly. I agree that the olympic lifts require more attention to technique than power lifts, but the clean is relatively simple to learn. You obviously should start with light weight. The problem that Honor described is common and has more to do with flexibility than anything else.

    I still think most new lifters should invest a few months of training before moving on to olympic lifts though.
  8. FighterJones is offline
    FighterJones's Avatar

    Registered User

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    Jun 2004
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    1,516

    Posted On:
    10/25/2005 7:15pm


     Style: LARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aight guys thanks for the suggestions, i will keep them in mind.
  9. Nid is offline

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    3,530

    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 7:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lawdog
    The stronger your neck is, the more of an impact it can withstand, and the less your head will move as the result of a head blow. That's why for years, boxers have used neck harnesses to stengthen their necks.
    So what does that have to do with shrugs?
  10. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2005 8:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KeinHaar
    So what does that have to do with shrugs?
    Shrugs strengthen traps. Traps stabilize neck.
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