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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2005 10:03am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    Ueshiba was actually a badass. Most Aikidoka don't understand that. He did hard fighting, even went to war, before deciding he was so badass he could even beat his opponents without hurting them. People just want to jump straight into being badass. It doens't work that way. It takes sweat and blood.

    PL

    Please believe it!!!
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2005 10:10am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsujinken
    really? well then I guess I'l have to tell my instructor who's been doing martial arts for 46 years that he didn't make me paralyzed for ten minutes from brushing my liver and he didn't squeeze my throat to the point of blacking out with two fingers.. cause some random guy on the bullshido weboard says it can't be done. hold on I'll give him a call right now.... :P
    I believe he did those things to you. But, did you "let" him do it?
  3. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2005 10:15am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Where is gravedigger when we need him?
  4. Atomic Noodle is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 1:46am


     Style: Aikido, Iaido, (+ others)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For starters, beef salad is good if made right. My mum makes great salad.

    Also, that video made me laugh. They were purely training and fluffing about. There was no intent there whatsoever.

    As to the art, well, ****, you can go on about it forever, but seeing as I practice it, I will throw some input in.
    My Sensei has got his blackbelt in some form of Karate a while ago (forgot which), spars with other styles and is Shi or Godan (again I forget). But his emphais is on practicalty and shear usefulness, not airy-fairy, can't-we-just-talk-about-this mentality. He is not a thug, but he won't preach and won't fall down if you wiggle your toes at him.
    This helps all of us be a bit more direct and practical in our training. He wil always mention other possiblities when fighting an oppenent, such as where a finishing or crippling blow could be used instead. I know I would probably got my ass handed to me by anyone proficient in practical street-fighting but it hasn't happened yet. Saying that, I plan to cross-train when I can spare the time (and injuries).
    Aikido CAN be practical, for those who want a spiritual, enlightment, ego-trip. Fine, pack your bags, but if something doesn't work for me, I discard it. Traditional Aikido in itself isn't the answer to every situation, but variations and options always help.
    Aikido can get burdened by the 'philosophical art' label, but that's not our fault. It's personal preference of the practicioner. I do like the peaceful outlook of it though. We are known as a 'hard-school' and when we train with other dojos, they're technique is..well...crap. They fall over for each other. I'm guessing this is a common sight, unfortunately so, but not the norm.
    I could stand to do more randori as always and sparring, but Aikdo IS effective as it nullifies the advantage of weight and strength IF the technique is perfectly executed.
    Guess that's the catch-22 huh?

    Well, that's my $.02

    Cheers

    Edit. Sorry if it was unclear, but the implication was that the practicioner does not embody the entire art (that I have seen), so it's totally subjective. At any rate, it's the individual, not the style that wins......as if that needed to be said. I'm just talking from experience and also get intimidated by 11-yr old girls (they can be REAL mean)
    Last edited by Atomic Noodle; 11/16/2005 2:16am at .
  5. DayOfTheJackass is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 2:16am


     Style: bjj, boxing, ex-iwama ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'm not saying the iwama ryu has the ONLY good warm beef salad...
  6. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 4:44am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is Aikido the martial arts equivalent of alcoholism? People in it always seem to try to justify how their habit isn't really an addiction, no they have an open mind but theirs is some good ****.

    Aikido is against its own existence. It's supposed to be an art where you don't hurt your opponent but its moves are so dangerous that the slightest amount of resistence may cause permanent injury to your opponent.

    ^ No, please explain that.

    It's supposed to be a gentle, flowing art where noone gets hurt and your opponent is awed by the amazing flow of energy.

    Yet it can't be practived alive because of the high risk of injury.

    On the other hand, Muay Thai and Boxing do just fine full force. In judo you can throw people around and choke them with impunity full force full resistance, in BJJ I hear the same.

    WTF is it with Aikido that makes it so gentle?

    And cut the BS with "resistant" and "practical" aikido. Get this people, you are only practicing with resistance if there is no predetermined attacker and defender, no predetermined attack or defense technique, and both opponents equally want to defeat their opponent.

    Now I want to hear from Aikido people that can claim that.
  7. Atomic Noodle is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 6:33am


     Style: Aikido, Iaido, (+ others)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WTF is it with Aikido that makes it so gentle?

    And cut the BS with "resistant" and "practical" aikido. Get this people, you are only practicing with resistance if there is no predetermined attacker and defender, no predetermined attack or defense technique, and both opponents equally want to defeat their opponent.

    Now I want to hear from Aikido people that can claim that.
    That's a very good point.

    In fact, you'll probably find that as Aikido is a 'peaceful' art, it attracts a lot of younger people as well as females, mostly of a passive disposition (males too for that matter).
    Reasoning this, you can't turn these people into aggressive animals to beat the crap out of their opponents.

    There are other MA/fighting styles that do that.

    Aikido to the lowbies is for learning the fundamentals of the techniques, not to purely jump in and take someone out. Once you advanced to a high-standard (as in for real, not just a black belt and hakama. Some Mcdojos hand out black belts, just like the host of a keg party would handout potato crisps)

    It is always assumed that someone with a lot of conditioning, or at least some form of physical training is able to apply techniques with more power either due to bodymass, speed or focus of force.
    (It's proven that excercising your muscles improves response time and power)

    As for the peaceful-aggressive thing. When these things called 'advanced classes' come up, the training kinda steps up into more free-flowing application with no predetermined technique or attack. ALTHOUGH, granted, the attacks are generally one of three strikes or any grip from any position/angle, so the attacker is somewhat limited.

    Unofficial classes include sparring as well, but this is similar to a Ju-Jitsu contest where it starts quickly and goes to ground

    So yes, Aikido is peaceful when learning the basics and training with women, kids etc, but when sped up with no plan, and you can get knocked out if you aren't wired, then, you can get a bit of 'practice'
    That is training, it's even more fun with weapons...
    I don't think there are many clubs who step up to this level, but I could be wrong (it's happened before)

    Flame on.
  8. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 8:22am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    In fact, you'll probably find that as Aikido is a 'peaceful' art,

    That's what I mean. Who said it is a "peaceful" art? Every Aikido technique results in a dislocation or break. It must be the most psychopathic martial art there is.

    It is so dangerous that you cannot practice it with any safety even after years of training.

    Sorry dude, full pelt Muay Thai results only in a few bruises. THAT's peaceful.

    What makes Aikido "peaceful" is the later philosophy of the man that founded it in a nation going through a crisis of identity after the atrocities of WW2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    it attracts a lot of younger people as well as females, mostly of a passive disposition (males too for that matter).
    Reasoning this, you can't turn these people into aggressive animals to beat the crap out of their opponents.
    But you have to be an aggressive animal to effectively defend yourself. That's the whole premise of a MA: to make you a fighter.

    The whole "Aikido teaches fighting skillz" is a logical fallacy of zombified proportions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    Aikido to the lowbies is for learning the fundamentals of the techniques, not to purely jump in and take someone out.
    The fundamentals are: punch, kick, block. I don't see how Aikido teaches that (and FFS DONT even go down the well trodden tsuki/shomen uchi/yokomen uchi path because calling that striking is just retarded).

    The 32 minute maneuvers that it takes to execute an ikkyo is not at all "fundamentals".


    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    When these things called 'advanced classes' come up, the training kinda steps up into more free-flowing application with no predetermined technique or attack.
    And the attacker and the defender (uke/tori) are not predetermined? Where? When? Everyone talks about it, no-one has seen it...


    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    So yes, Aikido is peaceful when learning the basics and training with women, kids etc, but when sped up with no plan, and you can get knocked out if you aren't wired, then, you can get a bit of 'practice'
    Why would you be training with kids? And the "women" statement sounds condescending. I'm sure there's a few women here that would disagree with you.

    And, in Aikido you don't get knocked out you fool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Noodle
    Flame on.
    Not flaming. My responses are reasonable based on a year's 3 times a week experience of Aikido. I'm not a master, but I've seen it all. Including the paralysations and the ki blasts. <--- Beat THIS!!!
  9. Peter H. is offline

    Professional Wrestler

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 9:21am


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleMeister

    And cut the BS with "resistant" and "practical" aikido. Get this people, you are only practicing with resistance if there is no predetermined attacker and defender, no predetermined attack or defense technique, and both opponents equally want to defeat their opponent.

    Now I want to hear from Aikido people that can claim that.

    I can

    And I can tell you that you are an idiot, you can practice techniques with resistance when both people know what's coming. That's how you build into being able to do techniques against resisting opponents. This is something that should be obvious to a judoka, unless your uke just tosses himself across the room everytime you do waza.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  10. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2005 9:49am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter H.
    I can

    And I can tell you that you are an idiot, you can practice techniques with resistance when both people know what's coming. That's how you build into being able to do techniques against resisting opponents. This is something that should be obvious to a judoka, unless your uke just tosses himself across the room everytime you do waza.
    I'm not sure I read you. What do you mean by "when both people know what's coming"?

    In judo, the "uke" doesn't know he is an uke until after he's flung across the room.

    I have more Aikido than Judo so far btw.
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