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  1. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:08am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    What you said is pure bullshido. The only way to become skilled is through practice. Now, to become skilled, at some point you were a beginner. SO, technically you are saying there are no skilled aikidoka because you are either skilled or not. Everything in between is bullshido.


    Then Aikido isn't a Martial Art. It is cultural preservation of joint locks.

    This is why Aikido is going the way of exercise Tai Chi. It is hard to find fighting teachers of these 2 styles because of BS like what you just said.

    I know I had to look at a few different aikido schools until I found one that taught in a way I felt would be worthwhile. I've always wanted to try tai chi too, but I dont want to sit in a room full of slightly overweight women in spandex to do it.

    Our dojo does train with various levels of resistance and we inject some jujutsu training now and then (our sensi was a long time jujutsu student before learning aikido) Hell we did a sesson a week or two ago on arm bars that was very interesting. I've come to belive that aikido is not about the technique, its about the philosophy. I think as long as you follow the principles you could study any martial art and still be an aikidoka.

    I use my TKD knowledge to help my aikido, I use my krav maga knowledge to help my aikido. (In both cases working with old friends who attack the way they want to attack and also will resist to various degrees). I'm currently going to begin judo this week (2 days a week with aikido 3 days a week) to help my ukemi (I need more work on breakfalls) and for a chance to compete. But all of this I concider my aikido training. If someone asks me what style I train, i'm going to say aikido. If judo doesn't seem to be helping me as much, maybe i'll look for a bjj school (although the only one I know of in the area doesn't have classes on the free days in between aikido classes) or a striking art. But I always practice aikido. For me, it's a way of moving, a way of standing, a way of thinking. All the locks and throws and pins are secondary to that. Everything I do, everytime I fall down, everytime I'm submitted, everytime I take a class in a different martial art, it helps my aikido.
  2. KnuckleMeister is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:20am


     Style: Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    Everything I do, everytime I fall down, everytime I'm submitted, everytime I take a class in a different martial art, it helps my aikido.
    Good, does attending aikido classes help your aikido?

    I'm not going to rant about Aikido, the art is not about fighting. No highly graded aikidoka I've met to date told me that the art adds to their fighting skills.

    km
  3. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:28am

    supporting member
     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FictionPimp, do you find training in more alive arts like judo actually help you in aikido or are the method's too different?
  4. Jones786 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:53am


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Agreed. Akido definately falls into the Dead arts catagory. You should probably try and train in one Alive art and one Dead art.
  5. FictionPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 9:02am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by locu5
    FictionPimp, do you find training in more alive arts like judo actually help you in aikido or are the method's too different?

    Well, I havn't started judo just yet. My first class will be this week on tuesday. I think it will help my aikido though. If anything it will help me work on being centered, relaxed and moving while some other guy is resisting and trying to throw me. And that is a big part of aikido training (the being relaxed and centered while moving). I know my krav maga and TKD training helped my aikido by giving me realistic strikes to work with. It also helps give me more options of atemi during my own techniques. I feel that the biggest part of being effective in aikido is staying relaxed. I also know that you wont stay relaxed if you are not used to combat. This is why I constantly bagger my friends into sparing with me. And this is one of the main reasons I want to take some judo. The sensi there is very open minded and said he wouldn't have a problem with me doing some free sparing with students after class.

    And KnuckleMeister. You are 100% correct. Aikido is not about fighting. I dont train to fight. In fact, I havn't been in a serious fight (streetfight if you will) in well over 5 years. In this day and age I would actually be reluctant to fight on the street and would do anything in my power to aviod it. I wouldn't want to be sued or charged with a crime, or shot/stabbed/etc.

    And yes, going to aikido class helps my aikido. It helps big time. My aikido sensi is the best teacher I have ever had. I love the way he teaches, and I love the way he will go from aikido to jujutsu and back, showing how to turn this or that technique into another technique, or good places to put a fist in there if you needed too. I've actually attacked him very close to full bore (not just a punch and wait) and ended up on my ass tapping. He's one of the people who encouraged me to cross train after listening to his stories. We have a great class with a lot of cross trained people with 10+ years exp and the knowledge goes around a lot. How many aikido classes get down on the ground for a discussion on ground work? Everyone thre already knows how to fight and are very good at their previous arts, now they just study aikido. I'm very humbled to be there and at almost 26, the youngest guy there. A lot of other places i went the training was very watered down, much less alive and seemed almost like an aerobic tai chi class just with throwing.

    I do think aikido is very effective for halting an fight before it gets out of control. If you can get them before it gets out of hand and throw them on their butt or lock them up they just might calm down and be reasonable. But hey, once its a fight, you better know how to fight. I think the biggest thing that aikido brings once the fight is on is the massive training on staying relaxed, moving, and balance. My friends who have sparred with me say that my movement has changed a lot, and for the better. I'm a lot faster at getting off the line and attacking them at angles.

    Anyways, I've got to stop writing these large ass posts. But give me a few weeks of judo and i'll comment on how or if I feel judo helps my aikido or vice versa.
    Last edited by FictionPimp; 11/14/2005 9:05am at .
  6. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 9:09am

    supporting member
     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please do, I think that would be interesting.
  7. Peter H. is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 10:44am


     Style: Aikido-Kickboxing-Taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BSONE
    Aikido is supposed to be an art of peace, NOT the art of fighting. If you want to fight well, then fight full contact to knock out as often as possible with highly skilled fighters. If you want to learn aikido, then train aikido as often as possible with highly skilled aikidoka. Anything in between is pure bullshido.
    WTF?

    Please explain, as I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure before I start ripping out a rant.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn
  8. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 11:13am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by locu5
    FictionPimp, do you find training in more alive arts like judo actually help you in aikido or are the method's too different?
    If you dont mind, i'll tell you my experiences training in alive arts, especially in bjj, in addition to aikido.

    I've found bjj helps my aikido but i've also found that aikido helps in bjj.

    I'm the older (40 years) and smaller (63 kg) guy in bjj class. The first three guys who signed for bjj at the gym were two kickboxers (one of them amateur boxer and the other a pro bouncer since near 10 years) around 90 kg (of muscle) and in his mid to late 20's, and me. And we still are the core group .

    I've trained with both of them in kickboxing and i can assure you that i'd last about 3-7 seconds to any of them in a full-contact match. At the kickboxing classes they looked at me like, well, you know how these people (head shaved tattoed badasses k-1 wannabees) can look at you...

    The first time we rolled (the first day of class, the three absolute noobs) my thougs were, more or less: "well, it's a good day to die so..."

    Being relaxed, centered physical and mentally, with a bit of luck and enough brain to use the aikido principles instead of muscling (and adapting some techniques to the ground) i managed not only to give game to these guys, they tapped to me as much as i tapped to them.

    I realized that, in my case, being outclassed physically and with the same technical knowledge about "T3h Gr4ppl3" (about zero), i've matched their superior physical with aikido in the ground.

    I'm not trying to say "I'm teh d34dly", but aikido principles imho are useful for fighting, or at least, are useful for me.

    [rant mode on:]However, i recognize there is a lot, well A LOT!!!, of bullshit in aikido and also a lot of misunderstandings about aikido not only amongst the non practitioners (understandable, of course) but in the aikido community. Sometimes, at aikido class i don't know how i resist the urge of bokkenizing some "mystical-esoteric" asses, but start a yihad on these people is futile and what is worse imho it makes them dig deeper in his bullshidoness. I don't mind you practice aikido like cha-do, but at least made the tea drinkable. [rant mode off]

    I believe (like Tomiki and assorted shodothugs) aikido could/should use judo(or "Basically Just Judo"), methodology, balancing cooperative/kata training and alive randori. I've seen textbook aikido techniques in Luis Gutierrez SBG's LEO training (and i don't dare to call Luis a practitioner of dead arts), because they are good techniques for restraining people/stopping attackers going mad at you. You won't find textbook aikido techniques in a nhb mach because it's the wrong time and place to use them.

    My 2 cents.

    BTW, I'm not looked down by the kickboxers no more (and they aren't so "bad", in fact they're very nice guys with "attitude").
  9. BSONE is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 11:14am


     Style: ASU Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    What you said is pure bullshido. The only way to become skilled is through practice. Now, to become skilled, at some point you were a beginner. SO, technically you are saying there are no skilled aikidoka because you are either skilled or not. Everything in between is bullshido.


    Then Aikido isn't a Martial Art. It is cultural preservation of joint locks.

    This is why Aikido is going the way of exercise Tai Chi. It is hard to find fighting teachers of these 2 styles because of BS like what you just said.

    Why is that pure bullshido? You dont believe in fighting full contact do you. You also don't know know much about aikido do you.

    A cultural preservation of joint locks? Please.
  10. BSONE is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 11:22am


     Style: ASU Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter H.
    WTF?

    Please explain, as I think I know what you mean, but I want to be sure before I start ripping out a rant.
    Pete, I think you do know what I mean. No need for a rant. Look up my profile, I think it will explain.
  11. DayOfTheJackass is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:31pm


     Style: bjj, boxing, ex-iwama ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    'aikido is X' 'aikido is y' 'thats not aikido...' Much of this confusion comes down to a bunch of dudes doing different things, for different reasons, under the same generic banner.
  12. Lotion is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 8:45pm


     Style: Martial Arts man!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    check out these great clips of resistant Aikido

    http://www.kokikai.org/md/video/video.php

    pwoned
  13. DayOfTheJackass is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 9:03pm


     Style: bjj, boxing, ex-iwama ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    aikido is a ceremonial demonstration for the gods of warm beef salad.
  14. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2005 9:21pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BSONE
    Why is that pure bullshido? You dont believe in fighting full contact do you. You also don't know know much about aikido do you.

    A cultural preservation of joint locks? Please.
    Let me explain your analogy. Notice how I'm not bagging on FP's description.

    Because it is an excuse across the board in TMA. Find a highly skilled teacher then, as with this thread, they are always hard to find. Then next comes the I train the real........(insert art). That is why I say bullshido.

    Breaking someones arm is not peaceful, learning how to kill, to not kill isn't peaceful

    Adding zen, Chan, christianity, philosphy doesn't change the fact that MAs are for killing.

    Once you change the martial aspect it becomes cultural preservation............................of joint locks.


    Yes, I do fight full contact.

    Don't mix fighting with training.
  15. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2005 3:00am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotion
    check out these great clips of resistant Aikido

    http://www.kokikai.org/md/video/video.php

    pwoned
    what you say?
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