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  1. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 2:17pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    Whil I don't know what Pat did to protest, it is a matter of public record what John Kerry accused American Soldiers of doing. Baby-killing is just one of them, rape and pillage are two others. (I paraphrase, of course).
    It is also documented that things like this happened. This gets into the ethics of war and rules of engagement. While I do not have Kerry's exact words, I think it is entirely reasonable for the public to be educated about what happened in Vietnam and in other wars and military actions.

    War is ugly. We shouldn't pretend that it isn't. I highly doubt that Kerry, an ex-soldier himself (like he would let us forget that), was going around throwing mud on every single soldier for the actions of a few.

    If the government can't reign itself in, then we need someone to provide an opposite perspective, even if it is provided by dirty annoying hippy flag-burners (just kidding . . . fuckers).
  2. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 2:19pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    This may be true, I'll take your word for it. This is not at all the case in Iraq. You support my contention that the war in Iraq is NOT like Vietnam.

    + rep for you.
    I do agree with you that Vietnam and Iraq are not extremely similar situations. There are SOME similarities, but they are not enough to call Iraq "Vietnam Part Deux."
  3. warnerj5000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 2:28pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    This may be true, I'll take your word for it. This is not at all the case in Iraq. You support my contention that the war in Iraq is NOT like Vietnam.

    + rep for you.

    Heh, I was actually going to write a bit more on that, but sort of got cut short for the time being.

    Anyway, yeah, I don't know how closely the Vietnam situation matches what is going on in Iraq. My impression is that while there is a lot of resistance in Iraq, and no one really likes the US occupation, there seems to be more support for the new constitution and government than the old one. That's a good sign.

    It's hard to know exactly what's going on, because there's so much propaganda and crap flying from both sides, so like I said, the above was just my impression of the situation. I know a few people over there now, and it seems like a mess, from what I'm hearing from them.

    I'll admit I'm a Bush-hater, and I think he and his administration did a lot of things to screw the war up. I don't think the war was a good idea from the start, but I think it's our responsibility to clean up whatever mess was made at this point. I don't think the war in Iraq is unwinnable, as I think Vietnam probably was.

    If it were unwinnable, it would be justified to pull out as soon as possible, to minimize our casualties.
  4. kungfujew is offline
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    Sexe dans la derrière!

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 2:43pm

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     Style: Muay Thai Khmer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    Whil I don't know what Pat did to protest, it is a matter of public record what John Kerry accused American Soldiers of doing. Baby-killing is just one of them, rape and pillage are two others. (I paraphrase, of course).
    ^
    l
    Douche-Bag.

    Revisionist, narrowminded douchebag, actually.
  5. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 3:18pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    Are you saying that the Bush administration is as corrupt as the Kennedy and Johnson administrations?

    I realize that you believe the current war in Iraq to be another "Vietnam" but you are mistaken.

    Just because some kids say they like George Bush you go and write some maudlin letter trying to equate the war in Iraq to the war in Vietnam.

    The only way they'll be the same is if war protesters like you convince the government to pull out before the war is won.

    I haven't studied the history of the Vietnam "police action" in detail ...
    You have the right to your opinion... but in this case your opinion is bullshit.

    Do you homework on Vietnam before you say what this current quagmire is or isn't.

    If you did know any details of that sordid chapter in our history, you would know that what was said earlier was true: the top brass like MacNamara knew the war was unwinnable.

    We didn't 'lose' that war because godless hippies protested it until we withdrew - we lost because it was, in the words of the Sec of Defense, 'unwinnable'.

    Did you get that? Because you are currently suggesting that if we start believing in and not protesting this war that it will somehow make up for the dreadful incompetence thus far.

    Please note how Colin Powell, who served with distinction in 'Nam, learned the vital lesons of counter-insurgency warfare and thus developed the widely praised Powell Doctrine. This approach to wise use of US force abroad calls for, among other things a *clear exit strategy* before US forces are deployed.

    Please also note how Powell was marginalized within the Bush White house so that the neocon ChickenHawks could have their way.

    Leodom, I have come to respect your integrity, but your ignorance and willingness to shill for these crooks is ludicrous.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  6. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 4:51pm


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    If you consider the removal of a despotic dictator; the replacement of said dictator with a democratically elected government; the development of a National Constitution; and the voting on that Constitution by the Iraqi citizens as a failure, then I would have to concede your point.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  7. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 5:03pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We went in there to find WMD that were harmful to us, though.

    PL
  8. Zendetta is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 6:01pm

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     Style: MMA, functional JKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodom
    If you consider the removal of a despotic dictator; the replacement of said dictator with a democratically elected government; the development of a National Constitution; and the voting on that Constitution by the Iraqi citizens as a failure, then I would have to concede your point.
    I see these things, especially the recent Sunni participatiion as generally good things.


    None of which had Jack **** to do with the justifications for this war.

    You can't call your trick shots AFTER you've made them.

    Riddle me this Leodom: if removing a despotic dictator and imposing a democracy is so 'good', why did the US support Saddam (and Noriega, and the house of Saud, and Bin Laden ,etc etc) for so long?
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  9. Leodom is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 7:21pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zendetta
    Riddle me this Leodom: if removing a despotic dictator and imposing a democracy is so 'good', why did the US support Saddam (and Noriega, and the house of Saud, and Bin Laden ,etc etc) for so long?

    The current administration never did.
    People of integrity expect to be believed. When they're not, they let time prove them right.
  10. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 7:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow...

    Just...wow...

    PL
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