225327 Bullies, 4053 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 71 to 80 of 97
Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 910 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 8:39am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotion
    rolls eyes. Oyama studied BJJ hmm never heard of that. And what of Kimura...he beat hmmm some old frail guy from Brazil right (that he was a lot bigger than)??
    Helio Gracie was neither old nor frail when he fought Kimura. Kimura was 33, Helio Gracie 37; Helio was still the Brazilian vale tudo champion at the time. The difference in weight between them was less than 15 lbs - Kimura's fighting weight was generally about 187 lbs, Helio weighed in at about 176 lbs (80 kgs), and Kimura was 5 inches shorter at 5'6" to Helio's 5'11. The more absurd claims made by the Gracie clan in intervening years don't really match up to what you can see for yourself on the Kimura-Gracie video, which tallies far better with the respective weights and heights given in Kimura's My Judo. Kimura of course was likely almost absurdly better conditioned, given his thousand pressups a day routine and long training hours.

    Kimura also came back to Brazil to fight again under full Vale Tudo rules in 1959, aged 42; he drew with the then champion 27-year-old Valdemar Santana (who was not merely younger, but also a much taller and heavier man than Kimura).

    So if Kimura said, "No-one can beat Oyama" and was serious about it, that carries a certain rather hefty weight to it. Of course, it would depend very much on the context in which this was said...
  2. Lotion is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    287

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 9:27am


     Style: Martial Arts man!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Masahiko Kimura, won the all-Nippon Championship before and after the war. Kimura is considered one of Judo's great Judokas. He created "pro" judo in 1949, but failed in his activities and went to Hawaii, U.S. and became a prowrestler. He started international prowrestling at his hometown but lost to "Lidosan" at the "fight of the century." Like Maeda, he went to Europe and the US, and found his way to Central America and went to Brazil.


    In 1952, at the gym next to the largest soccer stadium in Rio, the fight began. The rules were based on using judo gi's (No strikes). Invincible Helio was 45 years old, 63 kilos. Kimura at 93 kilos. Kimura, with his powerful physique, easily threw Helio. Kimura quickly commenced with the ground game (newaza). Kimura and Helio rolled on the ground as Kimura jockeyed for position and a submission. Helio did his best to defend against the onslaught from one of Judo's greatest fighters. Kimura tried different submissions to force Helio's submission. Helio refused to submit and fought to escape Kimura's punishing attacks. Helio struggled valiantly against his larger opponent as Kimura tried different submissions. For the first 2 minutes, it was a tie, but Helio was constantly on the losing end. After 15 minutes, Helio conceded defeat. The first defeat in Helio's life was handed to him by Kimura. The decisive arm lock technique used by Kimura was named the "Kimura Lock" and even now known to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu players, to praise Kimura's ability. It's been said that after the fight, Kimura invited Helio to visit the Kodokan in Japan. Helio declined. Even to this day, Helio speaks of great admiration of Kimura and appear proud to have faced one of Japan's greatest Judokas, Masahiko Kimura.





    so you see, Helio was actually 45 years old and was outweighed by 30 kilos. 30 * 2.2 = 66lbs!!
    so if Kimura said "No one can beat Oyama" that does carry merit but not as much as some would think
  3. The Vagrant is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    74

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 10:31am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ive seen the vid of the fight, there's no way in hell that there's a 30 kg difference.
    there's also no way that helio was 45 judging by a close lookup on his face.

    altho this one isnt hard to get, how old is helio today? when was the match? simple.

    overall, i think you're full of ****, and i only train judo because there's no bjj or wrestling around.
  4. GreenHornet is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    497

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 10:52am


     Style: BJJ Gi and noGi,MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    Bring on the corpes !!

    Time for the "battle of the dead" !!

    Asswipes, the whole lot of you.

    Oyama VS Lee
    Ali VS Oyama
    Foreman VS 26OZ steak
    Kimura VS Blonde big boobed call girl ( his kryptonite)

    Silly ****.
    Even if I don't like it very much (Joking) I must agree with Ronin on this one.
  5. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 10:53am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotion
    In 1952, at the gym next to the largest soccer stadium in Rio, the fight began. The rules were based on using judo gi's (No strikes). Invincible Helio was 45 years old, 63 kilos. Kimura at 93 kilos. Kimura, with his powerful physique, easily threw Helio. Kimura quickly commenced with the ground game (newaza). Kimura and Helio rolled on the ground as Kimura jockeyed for position and a submission. Helio did his best to defend against the onslaught from one of Judo's greatest fighters. Kimura tried different submissions to force Helio's submission. Helio refused to submit and fought to escape Kimura's punishing attacks. Helio struggled valiantly against his larger opponent as Kimura tried different submissions. For the first 2 minutes, it was a tie, but Helio was constantly on the losing end. After 15 minutes, Helio conceded defeat. The first defeat in Helio's life was handed to him by Kimura. The decisive arm lock technique used by Kimura was named the "Kimura Lock" and even now known to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu players, to praise Kimura's ability. It's been said that after the fight, Kimura invited Helio to visit the Kodokan in Japan. Helio declined. Even to this day, Helio speaks of great admiration of Kimura and appear proud to have faced one of Japan's greatest Judokas, Masahiko Kimura.





    so you see, Helio was actually 45 years old and was outweighed by 30 kilos. 30 * 2.2 = 66lbs!!
    so if Kimura said "No one can beat Oyama" that does carry merit but not as much as some would think
    Source? Some of the details are definitely wrong - Helio Gracie was born October 1, 1913 (http://www.gracie.com/family/tree.html) and the fight was in July 1951 (http://bjj.org/interviews/kimura/) according to bjj.org - so both the year of the fight and the age of Helio Gracie are given wrongly in that report, which doesn't fill me with confidence as far as the weights go.

    According to Kimura's My Judo, Helio was 80 kgs; the 60 kilos claim has no backing save Helio's own later claims, which have admittedly been widely repeated. The claimed difference is not borne out by other sources, nor does the video evidence suggest a 30 kg difference is likely. At 5'11"/180 cm, Helio would have to be pretty damn skinny to be 60 kgs. While the 5'11" cite is admittedly another of Kimura's, the video evidence does suggest Gracie is noticeably taller than Kimura.
    http://www.angelfire.com/ult/mmaclip

    Kimura was roughly about 84 kg when fighting Helio Gracie; for a source I cite bjj.org again, the same link.

    Please have some care in checking your sources for accuracy.
  6. Neildo is offline
    Neildo's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    6,045

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 11:24am

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who is who in that black and white clip?
  7. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    3,008

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 11:25am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neildo
    Who is who in that clip?
    Kimura is the Japanese guy and Helio is the Brazillian.

    Edit: Oh yeah, and Kimura is wearing the Judo gi, while Helio is wearing the Brazilian Ju Jitsu gi.

    Really the guy who gets thrown is Helio.
    Last edited by ojgsxr6; 10/21/2005 11:28am at .
  8. The Vagrant is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    74

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 11:28am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i found the source: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/5389/gracie.html

    i wonder what other false claims this page makes.
  9. Neildo is offline
    Neildo's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    6,045

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 11:30am

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ojgsxr6
    Kimura is the Japanese guy and Helio is the Brazillian.
    Kimura is wearing the Judo gi, while Helio is wearing the Brazillain Ju Jitsu gi.
    Really the guy who gets thrown is Helio.
    Thrown at the beginning (and in slow-mo at the end)? That painful looking hip-toss? Sweet. :owneddanc

    I can't really tell the difference in Gi's from the clip.
    Last edited by Neildo; 10/21/2005 11:32am at .
  10. Guerrero is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    291

    Posted On:
    10/21/2005 12:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai & "t3h gr4ppl3"

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Come on guys, everybody knows that the only reason why Kimura beat Helio is bcz Kimura was wearing a groin cup made out of kryptonite. If you don't believe me, just ask your local GJJ nutrider, they'll tell ya.
Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 910 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.