Helio Gracie was neither old nor frail when he fought Kimura. Kimura was 33, Helio Gracie 37; Helio was still the Brazilian vale tudo champion at the time. The difference in weight between them was less than 15 lbs - Kimura's fighting weight was generally about 187 lbs, Helio weighed in at about 176 lbs (80 kgs), and Kimura was 5 inches shorter at 5'6" to Helio's 5'11. The more absurd claims made by the Gracie clan in intervening years don't really match up to what you can see for yourself on the Kimura-Gracie video, which tallies far better with the respective weights and heights given in Kimura's My Judo. Kimura of course was likely almost absurdly better conditioned, given his thousand pressups a day routine and long training hours.
Originally Posted by Lotion
Kimura also came back to Brazil to fight again under full Vale Tudo rules in 1959, aged 42; he drew with the then champion 27-year-old Valdemar Santana (who was not merely younger, but also a much taller and heavier man than Kimura).
So if Kimura said, "No-one can beat Oyama" and was serious about it, that carries a certain rather hefty weight to it. Of course, it would depend very much on the context in which this was said...
Masahiko Kimura, won the all-Nippon Championship before and after the war. Kimura is considered one of Judo's great Judokas. He created "pro" judo in 1949, but failed in his activities and went to Hawaii, U.S. and became a prowrestler. He started international prowrestling at his hometown but lost to "Lidosan" at the "fight of the century." Like Maeda, he went to Europe and the US, and found his way to Central America and went to Brazil.
In 1952, at the gym next to the largest soccer stadium in Rio, the fight began. The rules were based on using judo gi's (No strikes). Invincible Helio was 45 years old, 63 kilos. Kimura at 93 kilos. Kimura, with his powerful physique, easily threw Helio. Kimura quickly commenced with the ground game (newaza). Kimura and Helio rolled on the ground as Kimura jockeyed for position and a submission. Helio did his best to defend against the onslaught from one of Judo's greatest fighters. Kimura tried different submissions to force Helio's submission. Helio refused to submit and fought to escape Kimura's punishing attacks. Helio struggled valiantly against his larger opponent as Kimura tried different submissions. For the first 2 minutes, it was a tie, but Helio was constantly on the losing end. After 15 minutes, Helio conceded defeat. The first defeat in Helio's life was handed to him by Kimura. The decisive arm lock technique used by Kimura was named the "Kimura Lock" and even now known to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu players, to praise Kimura's ability. It's been said that after the fight, Kimura invited Helio to visit the Kodokan in Japan. Helio declined. Even to this day, Helio speaks of great admiration of Kimura and appear proud to have faced one of Japan's greatest Judokas, Masahiko Kimura.
so you see, Helio was actually 45 years old and was outweighed by 30 kilos. 30 * 2.2 = 66lbs!!
so if Kimura said "No one can beat Oyama" that does carry merit but not as much as some would think
ive seen the vid of the fight, there's no way in hell that there's a 30 kg difference.
there's also no way that helio was 45 judging by a close lookup on his face.
altho this one isnt hard to get, how old is helio today? when was the match? simple.
overall, i think you're full of ****, and i only train judo because there's no bjj or wrestling around.
Even if I don't like it very much (Joking) I must agree with Ronin on this one.
Originally Posted by Ronin
Source? Some of the details are definitely wrong - Helio Gracie was born October 1, 1913 (http://www.gracie.com/family/tree.html) and the fight was in July 1951 (http://bjj.org/interviews/kimura/) according to bjj.org - so both the year of the fight and the age of Helio Gracie are given wrongly in that report, which doesn't fill me with confidence as far as the weights go.
Originally Posted by Lotion
According to Kimura's My Judo, Helio was 80 kgs; the 60 kilos claim has no backing save Helio's own later claims, which have admittedly been widely repeated. The claimed difference is not borne out by other sources, nor does the video evidence suggest a 30 kg difference is likely. At 5'11"/180 cm, Helio would have to be pretty damn skinny to be 60 kgs. While the 5'11" cite is admittedly another of Kimura's, the video evidence does suggest Gracie is noticeably taller than Kimura.
Kimura was roughly about 84 kg when fighting Helio Gracie; for a source I cite bjj.org again, the same link.
Please have some care in checking your sources for accuracy.
Who is who in that black and white clip?
Kimura is the Japanese guy and Helio is the Brazillian.
Originally Posted by Neildo
Edit: Oh yeah, and Kimura is wearing the Judo gi, while Helio is wearing the Brazilian Ju Jitsu gi.
Really the guy who gets thrown is Helio.
Last edited by ojgsxr6; 10/21/2005 11:28am at .
i found the source: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/5389/gracie.html
i wonder what other false claims this page makes.
Thrown at the beginning (and in slow-mo at the end)? That painful looking hip-toss? Sweet. :owneddanc
Originally Posted by ojgsxr6
I can't really tell the difference in Gi's from the clip.
Last edited by Neildo; 10/21/2005 11:32am at .
Come on guys, everybody knows that the only reason why Kimura beat Helio is bcz Kimura was wearing a groin cup made out of kryptonite. If you don't believe me, just ask your local GJJ nutrider, they'll tell ya.