Posted On:10/24/2005 9:06am
Originally Posted by Cullion
Phrost's line of argument is that the public's mistaken ideas about what a shodan means can't be changed, and shodans should therefore strive to satisfy the delusion.
I don't think this is true, but I do agree that MMA rules are the best legal means we have of testing unarmed fighting ability. I think changing the name would make a big difference, which is why I proposed it earlier.
You nailed it about Phrost's argument. This is a ridiculous reason to make general standards - to either support or change 'popular perception.' That is something that can happen on an individual level. Educate folks that come into contact with you. That is if they seem like it is worth your time. Sometimes it is just not worth it.
I agree that clearing up some terms and concepts would help to make something like this less of a pecking order game where, since it is MMA rules, MMA will look like the best and other arts will be presented as garbage.
I do believe in the idea that anyone who claims to train in a contact system better be able to prove that they can do what they claim. If someone claims that their art is 'combat proven' let them prove it on combat (clearly defined though). If they claim they can levitate and sing B.Streisand, they better be up to me standing there watching to prove it. If they claim that levitating and singing B.Streisand makes them 'fight ready' then they better prove that too.
I do believe that mixing with other arts is a good thing and do when ever I get the chance.
I never said that I was afraid of contact, mixing with other arts, or training intensely. I also said that claiming that ALL martial arts are crap if they don't train to fight was BS. RESPECT for all the different things that people can take from Martial arts Training isn't gargage, it's RESPECT. Imposing your own values of what Martial arts is or is not, is oppressive and narrow minded.
No one seems to be able to address the simplest "proof" that the POSERS that refuse to participate in MMA or any kind of 'realistic' trainining is proof enough that these guys are POSERS.
If they truly believed that they could back what they claim, they would be there. Or even if they at least had the guts to be really 'humble' and risk falling off of that self dillusional pedestal by risking 'losing.'
BTW, YES a redman suite is a valid safety measure if your going to actually be doing full force neck and head shots that would include palm strikes to the ears, palm strikes to the face/with clutching or grabbing motions as set ups for other motions, elbows....
Last edited by loki09789; 10/24/2005 12:25pm at .
Posted On:10/24/2005 9:39am
1. I'm sorry MMA scares you, but it's still the best way to decide who's a better fighter regardless of your irrational objections
2. Because you keep shitting up my forums and I get the last word here, not you.
3. Yes, because your style relies primarily on foot stomping and nut kicking. Another asinine argument from the "Too deadly to spar" crowd.
4. it's about REALISTIC fighting which doesn't limit combatants to certain ranges (Standup or Grappling only)
5. No, other people are hobbyists if they train in fighting techniques without ANY FUCKING INTENT OF EVER TESTING THEM.
6. Again, you're being obtuse in the face of simplicity.
7. This solution effectively ends any "inflation" of the importance of non-fighting "Martial" Arts.
8. The assumption is not that you're fat, it's that you're not training correctly and are a sub-standard Martial Artist for it.
9. I swear constantly around here, and I'm sorry if you feel it's being done for your benefit but you need to lurk more if you think that's the case. Your "rational and logical" view of things opens the door for the status quo of shitty Martial Arts to continue unabated. It's only "logical" if you're protecting shitty Martial Artists from being outed.
10...and need to be redesignated as something else in order to clean up the public's image of Martial Arts.
11. ...Limited rules, limited restrictions on techniques, and limited "black belts" awarded only to those who demonstrate the ability to use their techniques in a fight.
2. "last word...." hmm pride, ego, lack of control....loss of topical focus....
3. No, it relies on a true sense of 'economy of motion' or 'more bang for your buck' so that you have SOME degree of effectiveness regardless of fitness, age, gender, .... because it combines real street sense training WITH physical arts.
4. No but it does limit them in reactions that only fit into a 'fight to win' mentallity. Remind me a general overivew of MMA rulesets again? Tell me how that is 'realistic' when your going to end up focusing on knocking a guy out or breaking them with submission instead of the legal/social reality of defending yourself and escaping a life threatening situation?
5. Sing along with me "Self VALIDATION" Sorry, if your not relying on MMA to earn a primary income, your doing it as a hobby. THerefore ALL martial artists that don't do if for income are Hobbyists... including you.
6. Opinion about my opinion of your oversimplification.
7. Correct, it DEFLATES the importance of any other reason for doing martial arts. Which INFLATES your place in the pecking order. Self validation again. THere IS bullshido out there, but I don't think that saying that any and all arts that don't do a 'fight first' focus are bullshido. Those individuals that are making false claims are Bullshido.
8. RIGHT.......After all these years of martial arts training, to include military service and Law enforcement, YOU are going to set me straight.
9. Self validating loop.
10. This is no valid motivation to establish any standard. If I am going to validate my training it is because I want to know, reasonably, that it is going to work NOT to change public opinion.
11. Based on WHO's criteria? With all those 'limits' wouldn't that make the validity 'limited?' as well? How realistic is that?
Ya know, I wonder how rational all of this would look if Phrost would just come out and talk about "Martial Arts Superiority" to explain his stance. THe rationale and passion looks a lot like other justifications for "Superiority" that are just as subjective, prejudicial and narrow minded.
Last edited by loki09789; 10/24/2005 10:08am at .
Posted On:12/18/2006 4:41pm
Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)
Moved this to classics. This was a good thread for the most part.
Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Posted On:12/27/2006 5:07pm
Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo
Hey Phrost, I know this is an old thread but I wanted to say thanks. You couldn't have wordered it perfectly (speaking on the analogy in the first post). I have a friend who has been questioning her Muay Thai school. Seems they have "belt ranks?" and also they don't spar. I'm bringing her to the dark side of MMA/BJJ training. It also helps that she knows the guy who is partners with the guy opening the SBGi school here in Bellingham, WA soon (check the sig). I sent her a link to this thread as well.
Posted On:12/27/2006 6:35pm
Cool. Hope it helps.
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