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  1. Apostol is offline

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    Jul 2004
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 1:07am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    Rounded-back lifting is a valid form of exercise. If you're picking up something heavy off the ground, your back won't always be straight. Zercher deadlifts are all about the rounded-back, as are lifting stones.
    That is very true, however I think the risk of injury is higher when you're using more weight. You will not be using as much weight with a stone (usually, heh) as opposed to a standard deadlift.
  2. lawdog is offline

    Middleweight

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    Mar 2005
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    Florida
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 8:10am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo & Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    Rounded-back lifting is a valid form of exercise. If you're picking up something heavy off the ground, your back won't always be straight. Zercher deadlifts are all about the rounded-back, as are lifting stones.
    You're correct about that. When I was younger, I used to round my back all the time when lifting. When I was 17 I was deadlifting 405 at a body weight of 165 and my low back was completely rounded. It never lead to any noticeable injury. What happens though is that over time you accumulate a lot of micro trauma to the lower lumbar area, and end up stretching the the ligaments, eventually resulting in a major disc injury. It really is a cumulative factor. I eventually had 3 herniated discs. Two could be traced to specific trauma, one wrestling match and one judo tournament. The other just appeared, and I don't know exactly what caused it. I now understand that even the two related to trauma probabaly had more to do with bad form when lifting, stretching, and training, over the years, than it did with the actual trauma.

    However, like you said, some lifts do require it, and it's a decision that has to be made depending on how much you enjoy the sport and whether or not you want to risk a future problem that may or may not present itself.

    An interesting study in Finland, I think, looked at spinal health (specifically disc integrity) of several different types of athletes, including power lifters and olympic lifters. My guess was that the olympic lifters would have had the highest rate of disc herniation/degeneration. Turns out the runners had almost none. Olympic lifters had almost none. Power lifters had the highest rate.

    Now, having competed at power lifting and having done a lot of olympic lifting when I was younger, the results actually make sense to me when I think about it. Olympic lifts (snatch, clean & Jerk) require almost perfect form to perform an effecient lift due to the balance involved. Olympic lifters can't round or straighten their backs through any significant portion of those lifts, or they'll lose their balance. Another obvious factor is that they aren't lifting as much weight, their core is engaged more, activating a solid "pelvic girdle", and the weight is never resting directly on their spines. The real determining factor though is their tendency to maintain proper spinal alignment. Power lifters on the other hand, will often roll their backs when deadlifting and straighten (or even roll) it when squatting. In fact it's the preferred method for many.

    Koto, if you're going to keep competing in strongman competitions, I would recommend reading Stuart McGill's book on back performance and fitness. He's a Ph.D in bio-mechanical engineering, specializing in the spine, and maybe the leading authority on spine health in the world. He's a former athlete and an advocate of lifting, especially dynamic functional lifts. He cuts through all the B.S. out there and bases everything on sound research. Many elite athletes and teams hire him to help minimize the risk of back injury. I've read several books on the topic, and his is by far the best. It may increase the number years you'll be able to compete.
  3. Warpath is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 5:27pm


     Style: TKD, western boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That book sounds like something I should check out.

    Do you go up to your 1-rep max everytime you lift? Conventional wisdom says you don't max out like that during training.
  4. Honor is offline
    Honor's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Apr 2005
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 6:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Gnujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's interesting Lawdog. I'll have to look into that
    Legendary Street Fighter
  5. Equipoise is offline
    Equipoise's Avatar

    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    In the nightmares of bodybuilders.
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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 6:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Screw it, I'll just get a bionic spine.

    As for the weird feeling, any heavy weight with DL will do that. I get that feeling too and I shake for a good while after DL'ing heavy weight. How much are you weighing now Camus?
  6. Camus is offline
    Camus's Avatar

    Office Drone

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    Posted On:
    10/15/2005 6:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Between 215 and 220, depending on if I'm on a full stomach or not :icon_boun

    I'm not too worried about it, but being my height I have enough lower back problems as it is, esp. with my tiny ass truck I can't even sit-up straight in, so I gotta make sure I'm taking it easy.
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