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  1. Camus is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 4:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Deadlift Question

    Quick question regarding deadlift:

    I've been doing deads once a week with a pyrimidal-type structure. Start at 185 to warm up, maybe 12 reps, then starting working up at fairly large intervals (but they vary on my mood and how much time I have, usually ~50lbs) with low reps (4-5) until I get to around 350, my last, which I rep only once and usually drop it (my forearms give out).

    I do the standard deadlift and use my legs plenty and my back is always ramrod straight (although at the higher weights sometimes my shoulders slump a little) and I check this in the mirrors and ask my buddy to watch when he comes along to make sure.

    Without fail, after deads, I have a strange sensation in my lower back (same area that gets sore when you're in the car for too long) that I couldn't call pain and feels more muscular than skeletal, but it nonetheless unusual. By the next day that area is sore just like any other muscle and weird feeling is gone, but this concerns me as I wonder if it is indicative of bad form? I'm currently lifting at my school gym and there aren't really any knowledgeable folks to ask, esp. considering how few people I see doing deadlift anyway.

    I know deads aren't inherently bad (my favorite lift by far), but I am curious if any wizened lifters could shed some light on this (ambiguous as it is).

    Thanks in advance.
  2. Apostol is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 4:07pm


     

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    Does it feel like it burns in the deep lower spine? That happens sometimes, but your back should not necessarily be completely straight, it should be arched in a "C". If your back is rounded like a reverse C, then that is where major injury can occur, and more stress is put on the lower back. Just think about sticking your ass out as far as possible, don't look down, and even feeling a slight stretch in the hamstrings. This will prevent your back from rounding.
  3. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 4:20pm

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    Yeah, like how chix should look when they're getting tagged in the best possible way.
  4. Honor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 5:27pm

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    it's called a pump. the blood flows to the region which can cause a lot of discomfort.

    If you are sure that it's not a pump, I wouldn't go so heavy next time. Or use straps. Your weak grip strength could be what's causing your shoulders to round. Like I said below injuries happen when you go from straight/arched to rounded. Lower the weight.
    Last edited by Honor; 10/14/2005 6:03pm at .
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  5. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 5:36pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeinHaar
    Yeah, like how chix should look when they're getting tagged in the best possible way.
    KeinHarr and Apostol are both correct, but I have an easier time relating to Keinharr's analogy.

    Most people don't go over 3-5 reps on deadlift for the very reason that the chances of losing your form increase exponentially with every rep. Your lumbar area will be sore after deadlifting, b/c you're working the hell out of it. However, the very fact that you even mentioned it concerns me, even though you say it just feels like muscle soreness. Disc injuries will often feel like muscle soreness in the beginning. Also, most disc injuries are the result of repetitive minor traumas, not a single major trauma.

    It's extremely important to maintain proper spinal alignment when doing any load bearing exercise, especially deadlifts, and proper spinal alignment is not "ram-rod straight", it's curved as Keinharr so eloquently put it. Ramrod straight can be as bad as rolling it.

    Also, make sure your buddy is watching closely, b/c it's rare to see the shoulders roll before the lower back, it's possible, but unusual. If your shoulders are rolling forward, there's a good chance your low back is also.
  6. Honor is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 5:55pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apostol
    Does it feel like it burns in the deep lower spine? That happens sometimes, but your back should not necessarily be completely straight, it should be arched in a "C". If your back is rounded like a reverse C, then that is where major injury can occur, and more stress is put on the lower back. Just think about sticking your ass out as far as possible, don't look down, and even feeling a slight stretch in the hamstrings. This will prevent your back from rounding.
    Injuries happen when you go from straight to rounded with a load on your back. If you lift with a rounded lower back you'll be limited in strength but it's not going to automatically injure you.

    Sticking your ass out will increase the energy required to move the weight as your hips have to travel further. You want to bend at the hips to grab the weight instead of bending at the waist. This will prevent you from rounding your lower back. Using an arched back is fine. Rounding the upper back will reduce distance and also give you better leverage.
    Last edited by Honor; 10/14/2005 6:00pm at .
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  7. lawdog is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 6:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor
    Injuries happen when you go from straight to rounded with a load on your back. If you lift with a rounded lower back you'll be limited in strength but it's not going to automatically injure you.
    While technically accurate, in the sense that NOTHING will "automatically" injure you, that's very dangerous and misleading advice.

    It's not the transition from arched or straight to rounded that usually causes the damage, it's the shearing as opposed to compressing force experienced when bearing a load with a straight or rounded spine, rather than a properly aligned spine. In other words, the movement isn't generally what causes the damage, although it certainly does sometimes, it's just not the most common cause of the damage. The most common cause is that your spine is bearing a load while straight or rounded, instead of slightly curved at the lumbar region. The spine can bear the most weight when properly aligned, the second most weight when straight, the the least amount of weight when rounded forward.
  8. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 8:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rounded-back lifting is a valid form of exercise. If you're picking up something heavy off the ground, your back won't always be straight. Zercher deadlifts are all about the rounded-back, as are lifting stones.
  9. loki09789 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 9:01pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    Rounded-back lifting is a valid form of exercise. If you're picking up something heavy off the ground, your back won't always be straight. Zercher deadlifts are all about the rounded-back, as are lifting stones.
    There is a time and place and there is the question "is the risk worth the reward?" to consider.

    I would say talk to a CERTIFIED personal trainer (perferably someone with a Strength and Conditioning cert) and talk to them about it. It may be overtraining because of wt., frequency, duration.....

    The lordodic arch is what you should be trying to maintain. If you can't hold the form DON" T LIFT THE WT!

    You may not feel the damage in a week or even months, but years from now you'll be in the Chiro's office and he'll say something like "Do you lift wt.? What exercises do you do? Show me." and then he will go "OHHHHHH Now I see" and then he will schedule you for tons of appointments at lots of dollars per visit.

    That is what happened after 13 years of military service. I go to the Chiro after my back goes out and he asks if I spent lots of time carrying heavy loads....DUH!
  10. Camus is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/14/2005 9:31pm

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    I shall endevour to insure that the ass is protruding in a buttsecks type manner, I had tried to avoid that before as I was worried about curving my back (albeit in the opposite direction), but it tends to happen.

    As for the slumped shoulders, that generally doesnt happen until I am standing straight with the barbel dangling at the end of the lift.

    I wouldn't call the feeling burning, simply that I 'feel' the area, when one usually doesn't, so maybe it isn't that big of a deal; nontheless, I feel wiser after all of this information. I'm now resolved to find a trainer to talk to about this as soon as possible.
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