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  1. GuySmiley is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 12:59pm


     Style: Kickboxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think your question comes down to personal opinion...yours most importantly.

    Technically the moves/stances can be used for either MA(physical encounters considered "fights") or "yoga" (slow relaxed movements/stances focusing on breathing and relaxation/meditation)

    IMO...to make that decision you'd have to take the Tai-chi class in the context its taught.

    If the majority of the class is obviously not in, what the average person would consider, "fighting condition", or the attitude of the place is marketed as some type of pysical meditation, and there were no physical contests that included necessary use of strength...then I think it would be safe to consider it "chinese yoga."

    If the majority of the class was there to test their "physical" abilities against other like-minded individuals, the place was marketed as a MA/self-defense class and there were regular sparring schedules/tournaments (ie.push-hands, etc)....then I think it would be safe to consider it a "MA."
  2. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 1:55pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We practice it (Yang style) as a martial art -- but the format is a bit *less* martial than the Lost Track Monk Fist or Xingyi. This is probably due to the fact that we have several students with no martial interest (and getting paired with them is sometimes a chore, admittedly). All the same, the attitude is that you must be familiar with application to perform the postures correctly. For the most part, though, the most practical Tai Chi training occurs in the kung fu group for those that do both, not the Tai Chi group. I'd say that as far as the way we do things around here, Tai Chi is a handy base for really getting Lost Track Monk Fist, since it relies on the same trunk/hip work.
  3. StinkyFlower is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:25pm


     Style: Chinese Pugilism

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuySmiley
    If the majority of the class was there to test their "physical" abilities against other like-minded individuals, the place was marketed as a MA/self-defense class and there were regular sparring schedules/tournaments (ie.push-hands, etc)....then I think it would be safe to consider it a "MA."
    I agree and disagree with this statement. It is important that any Martial Arts tests their conclusions otherwise it's just dance but the Tai Chi classes I attend are less physical then my gongfu classes and I think that is for a reason. Remember I've just been doing Tai Chi for about a year but been doing other Martial Arts for about 7 so this is my experience.

    It seems to me that Tai Chi (and I imagine other internal arts) takes a different route to learning. In Tai Chi you work inside->out instead of outside->in. What I mean is that you must first learn how to relax your mind and body before you start worrying about you physical coordination and timing. This is different from external arts that first focuses first on physical aspects like timing and distance control.

    This means that Tai Chi takes a longer route getting to the sparring and practical self defence stage so in the beginning you focus mostly on just relaxing and learning form. Later you add on push-hands and other techniques more like sparring. In Tai Chi the mind is the most important aspect and the physical is just secondary :-). So in a sense Tai Chi starts different then other martial arts.

    That said the Tai Chi classes I attend have practical moments to them. Our teacher will take steps from the form we are working on; show the application of it and then we work on that technique. We even go further into a little more free-form motion but not as much as our gong-fu classes.

    The interesting thing is that doing these more static and slow forms still teaches me a lot that I can make use of in our more external gong-fu classes. I think my deepest understanding comes more from tai-chi then gong-fu. Gong-fu is more, parry, sidestep,punch, step, kick combinations while tai chi is more a flow.


    YMMV
  4. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:30pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the real question is:

    Is Yoga really a form of exercise, of just an excuse for men to see women spreadind their legs ?

    Now, That is a topic for much discussion.
  5. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:35pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by liokault
    Most CMA has throws etc (called Shuai Chiao). Lots of it is very similar to judo, but in fact is much older.

    Going into the whole Shuai Chiao aspect of CMA is several whole new threads.

    If you really don't think that the Tai Chi of Dan Docherty is anything but a recent stitching together of dance tai chi with some grappling throws, look on the Renaissance Tai Chi web site for the Chen Tin Hung DVD. This shows Chen (Dan's teacher)doing throws etc.....its a cool 8mm black and white film shot on the streets of 60's hong kong.
    NO WAY! THERE WAS NO ALIVE TRAINING BEFORE BJJ, MUAY THAI, AND JUDO!
  6. JFS USA is offline

    Converter of Virgins

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: H'ung Ga & SPM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    I think the real question is:

    Is Yoga really a form of exercise, of just an excuse for men to see women spreadind their legs ?
    If I wasn't scared shitless that my Wife might find this Web Site I would tell why I go to Yoga Class ... in the trendy part of Columbia ... where all the highly maintained, bored house Wives are ... whose husbands tend to be out of town a lot ... for days or even weeks at a time ... but I'm scared shitless ... so I'm not saying.
  7. isol8d is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:39pm


     Style: kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    Why either or ... holistic systems can be employed across a wide range of parameters.

    I have a dear Friend who practices primarily for health benefits ... she is in her 60s and
    "back in the day" practiced primarily for martial purposes. No disconnect in system ... simply a shift in context.

    Watched GM WCC Chen do an impromptu demo a couple of times "back in the day" ... in the first he had one of his Tudai take a phone book out of a booth ... NYC phone book ... 2 of his Tudai held the book with the book spine facing him. He "slapped" the spine of the book with the back of his hand (Single Whip) damned near splitting the book in 1/2. Hate to take that shot to head.

    Another time we were all sitting around in a rice shop and GM WCC Chen answered a question by having one of his Tudai secure 13 1" inch pine boards ... the typical ones used in breaking demos. The boards were stacked on the ground, in plane with the ground ... he dropped down ... struck the stack ... and broke every board (Snake Creeps Down). Hate to take that shot to the knee.

    I am not in any way associated with the TCC tradition ... and I'm not blind to real skill when I see it ... regardless of form.

    How "best" to use or pursue your interests? "Horses for courses" as my Friend Steve would say.

    Both of his kids are heading to Vietnam on the US Sanshou team this december. I'd say that qualifies their tai chi, as taught by their father....

    It's always fun to see WCC Chen and his daughter do Tai Chi with their gloves on.... very surreal.... the pink gloves and all....
  8. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    If I wasn't scared shitless that my Wife might find this Web Site I would tell why I go to Yoga Class ... in the trendy part of Columbia ... where all the highly maintained, bored house Wives are ... whose husbands tend to be out of town a lot ... for days or even weeks at a time ... but I'm scared shitless ... so I'm not saying.

    The dark side is strong with this one...too strong....
  9. isol8d is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:43pm


     Style: kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by liokault
    Retard, you guys in America think your getting real waffles, but infact you for years have been getting fake inferior quality waffles, the sort of waffles that were invented to keep the real waffles secret.

    I and I alone hold the secret of the true waffle.......which can be purchased from me for $9.95
    In America. We like fried chicken with our waffles....

  10. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    10/13/2005 2:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JFS USA
    If I wasn't scared shitless that my Wife might find this Web Site I would tell why I go to Yoga Class ... in the trendy part of Columbia ... where all the highly maintained, bored house Wives are ... whose husbands tend to be out of town a lot ... for days or even weeks at a time ... but I'm scared shitless ... so I'm not saying.
    I see nothing here that one might be ashamed of their wife seeing. You choose to train with fertile, voluptuous women because..

    Your training requires that you exchange your yang for their yin ?

    That came out wrong. What I meant was..

    You have excess 'jing' which needs to be 'discharged' in a nurturing environment ?

    No, no, what I meant was; You need something soft and feminine to balance your hard and masculi... aw **** it. I give up.
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