Whats goin to happen to Royce Gracie!

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 8/18/2002 8:55pm

I know, it was pretty funny, in fact speaking of crabs, they looked like crabs on their backs, the flailing limbs, the complete lack of understanding of what was happening, the desperation and panic. Really pathetic.

**PeedeeShaolin** · Posted On: 8/18/2002 10:36pm

I have a tape somewhere that me and my brother made. It has all dubbed voices of the Kung Fu guys yelling tings like "KeeeAAAAYYEEE" and "Oh NO! TEACHER!! What I do NOW!! My Chi no WORK!" Its not half bad.

"Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 8/19/2002 1:11am

Oh man, we should sell a video like that on here...who cares how bad the dubbing is! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

9chambers · Posted On: 8/19/2002 2:20am

Ron Van Clief was like 65 years old when he took on Royce .. I think that is kind of important to note. Not that he did well .. just .. he was a senior citizen, you realize that, right?

The mount is standard and natural .. go ahead and take credit for the mount if you want to but I was using it in grade school in the 70's like most other kids. I guess you didn't have any brothers..

Yay, I am going to patten laying on top of someone and name it the "laying on top of someone guard" and make a million bucks. I am retarded. Nyyaaaaawuu.

The guard is all BJJ has that is a unique. They didn't invent arm bars, triangle chokes or the rear guard or any of that stuff. Its all standard.

When I was in Jr. High school I had already developed good techniques for escaping the mount. After wrestling and studying Jujutsu and Judo in the 80s and early 90s (pre UFC explosion) I had pretty much perfected my defenses against the mount. Maybe that is why I am a little surprised that people are so impressed by such a basic position.

I used to start out sparring from being in the mount or in a choke and so on just to practice escaping stuff like that - back in the 80s. It was a revolution for you when you saw your first UFC .. for me, it was like .. "Finally someone that fights like we do instead of Jean Claude Van Damme! .. cool! .. only Royce isn't as fast as us .. wait Vitor is fast .. cool!"

Heck, timing a good hip thrust with a grab, push or pull will knock a lot of guys off - once their weight is up you twist and slip out - it takes some acting and you have to be able to discern the right moment but once you learn then its easy.

Sorry if I sound like a pompous fool. I will admit that to 90% of the world maybe this stuff is all new. Maybe I am just not typical because of how I trained. Maybe I shouldn't talk about this because I don't represent the general public. Maybe you are right. I don't know.

The guard is solid. I just don't see how anyone could camp in it during a real fight. You pretty much offer your nuts to the guy. If he is protecting himself and periodically cracking you in the nuts you are going to make a move eventually.

Forgive me if I sound arrogant or ignorant to you. If we "rolled" together then you'd see what I mean just like other BJJ guys have in the past. Its hard to explain on here.

All being said - I have no beef with BJJ. It is good technique. It works. Its just not news.

9chambers · Posted On: 8/19/2002 3:20am

... Okay, maybe that last post was a little too enthusiastic. I know that working the mount or guard is a lot different than just sitting in it. I know I know .. I get it. I know its a lot more complicated than your big brother sitting on you and letting spit slide out then sucking it back in at the last second.. I know.

But there is nothing new under the sun .. and everything I see Royce do is familiar .. maybe that isn't because of the technical training I got though. Its from my own experimentation. Logic.

Yea, I know there are counters for the hip thrust and bucking .. but if you are used to feeling a body on you and you don't give away your intent then you can pull it off quickly after setting it up or waiting for the right second in his shift ..

STANDARD JUSTIFICATION: I saw TK do it.

Yea yea, you can defend against strikes to the groin if you get a good hold on the upper body in the guard. Its all about how you work the positions with little grabs, puches and shifts in your weight. I understand all that .. I understood it back in the 80s too. Its not news to me ..

.. but I guess i am not typical. I really have no business defending another TMA on this matter. I was very non-traditional and unorthadoxed in my training.

I'll let other guys argue about this then. Sorry.

my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 8/19/2002 3:58am

I agree that the mount is a natural position and the guard is not new, it's just focusing on it the way BJJ does that is new. Sambo, Judo and JJJ (and by extention of those Shootfighting) all include the guard but none of the above systems focus on it. BJJ focuses on the guard too much IMO but it does do something no other system does.

**Triangle** · Posted On: 8/19/2002 6:59am

BJJ made the guard, before BJJ it was good for sh*te all! BJJ doesn't focus too much on the guard, only too much on using lapels and long sleeves to work it's techniques!

**Gezere** · Posted On: 8/19/2002 10:39am

PD,

I sent you two email on Friday. Did you get them? If what is listed on your profile is not your email can you PM it to me?

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

**PeedeeShaolin** · Posted On: 8/19/2002 11:21am

DAMN! A few friends had the same problem. Maybe my Email was a little messed up for a few days. I didnt get anything from you.

"Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker